Bollocks on the Family Tree

Industry Talk
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Bollocks on the family tree

The January issue of Surfing Magazine includes a giant advertisement for Surf Tech that’s a two page fold out called “shapers: A family Tree: The future of surfing is in their hands…the future of surfboards is in ours” What a pretentious way to use a play on words to cover deceit.

Keeping things objective…How did Surf Tech become the sage of Surfboard Builders and Surfing Magazine the institution that decides who is worthy as a shaper or not? Why put together a list that you admit is not accurate? Knowing full well that the only thing the targeted novice surfer reading the ad will notice are those names in print. I wonder what the criteria for getting adopted into this so called family tree actually is? Could it be: Who you know; how many ads you have placed; or your standing with those placing the ads?

I also find it amusing that some of the individuals on the list don’t even build surfboards but simply sell them and legitimate shapers that have made contributions to the industry in board design are not included.

It reminds me of that interview with Johnny Rotten of the Punk band “The Sex Pistols” when he was discussing the Rock and Roll hall of fame and not wanting to be inducted into it. He said the Rock and Roll hall of fame wanted nothing to do with his band until they were influential and joked about the Hall of fame being a mausoleum instead of a museum. He went on to say that he didn’t need any corporate sod telling artist who had worked hard for their accomplishments how they fit into the scheme of things and didn’t need an institution making itself the standard of judgment. I think the old boy had more insight than Surfing Magazine/Surf Tech and most of those surfers who read that stuff and believe it’s anything other than someone’s calculated opinion.

As for the shapers on the list…I hope you got paid by Surf Tech for them using your names in their ad and claiming they are the future of surfboards and not you. Institutions like Surf Tech and Surfing Magazine are the enemy of surfing and surfboard builders not the future. I’ll toss my lot in with those shapers who have struggled for years to create something that is now copied by cheap Asian labor…not the trade magazine jackals that feed off the art while it’s riding high in popularity. Usually at the expense of the shapers with real credibility and talent.

In the words of Johnny Rotten…Bollocks.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YE_NPxj8K3I

Here is the John Lydon interview…it’s worth a look…everytime he mentions the Rock and Roll hall of fame or music industry…think Surf industry or Surfers Hall of fame and etc.
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Johnny Rotten has done well without the R&R Hall of Fame…

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…tell it to Kendall…

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Solo,

As usual, I tend to agree with your sentiments on this one. However I do think that the guys that compiled the list did and do have good intentions and seem aware that no such list can every be really accurate or complete. In my opinion, its just unfortunate that “Surfing” and “Surftech” were involved.

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In my opinion, its just unfortunate that "Surfing" and "Surftech" were involved.

The tree will ultimately end up at the Surfing Heritage Foundation, where it will belong to all of us. They are the true future of surfing’s history. They exist because Dick Metz and his friends have dumped boatloads or their own sweat, blood, and money into preserving our past. They get nothing but the satisfaction of keeping records and artifacts safe for future generations to study and enjoy.

Surfing Magazine was the first to publish a list like this - in 1989. Because of this, we felt they deserved the chance to print an updated version.

Someone had to pay for the extra paper and printing. Randy French and Surftech owe a lot (and they know it) to the shapers that are on the list. I’ve said it on other threads, and I’ll say it again - Randy is a core surfer. He doesn’t only ride Surftechs. He rides everything. He’s a shaper himself. He never set out to snuff out shapers by building Surftechs. He contributes more back to surfing than most of us. Dale Velzy was the first to sign on… was he a poser? How about Yater… or Robert August… Donald Takayama…

Look… if you’re all about “free” surfing, be a free surfer and don’t buy into anything anyone else is doing. Live off the grid, make your own boards from found materials, and have your own style. You might as well gather and catch your own food and make your own clothes too (or don’t wear any).

It’s impossible to be part of modern society without buying somewhat into mass produced consumer ptoducts. Do you buy dish soap? How about toilet paper… car… handtools… music… DVDs…

You think Hexcel cares about your soul? Did Grubby Clark?

Most of us need to make a living. I’d rather do it in the surf industry - where I get to have “board meetings” and get paid - than by drilling oil, flipping butgers (not Bert Burgers), cleaning porta-potties, pushing meaningless piles of paper, or most other things people have to do to survive.

The tree is just something that George Orbelian and I thought should be done. We’ve spent lots of money and countless hours just getting it where it is now. We’ll never make the time or moeny back, but we wanted to put the list out there. It’s simply a list, and not intended to get folks hot under the collar. We put two years into gathering info, then stopped to focus on the software that will make it dynamic and interactive. When it’s online, viewers will be able to interact with it and offer changes and additions. It will be way, way deeper than what’s printed in Surfing Mag.

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kendall – two things ,

when is the tree going to be online?

and out of curiousity did you consult with andy anderson at all on this project? he is a board restoration guru/collector in point loma who many years ago started compiling a list of shapers/board builders and their models, I remember at the time thinking he knew the timelines of who and when I worked for which companies better than I did!

thanks – s.a.

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I haven’t talked directly with Andy Anderson yet… I’m aware of all the work he’s done and info he’s gathered over the years… Oh my god, what an obsession.

He recently signed a deal with the Surfing Heritage Foundation and has turned over his research to them. We are in the process of doing the same. I’m on the tech commitee at SHF, and we’ve spent hours looking through his book and thinking how to best share it with others.

We just wanted to get our list to a respectable point then let others - like SHF - take it over from us. This is an organic thing that will constantly evolve. The online version is really close to being ready. We are just doing a few more tweaks before we set it loose. We’ve taken a lot of flack already, and we haven’t even gone live yet. We want to be fairly together with our online version before we put it up.

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we don’t tell lies we never tell lies to no one . … .

don’t lie, don’t need to, don’t need them lying about us

institutions trying to incorporate you into THEIR methodology . . . the point is

if you’re writing music and your singing things and you believe in what you do its from your heart.

and that’s is the things the institutions absolutely negate on.

I don’t belong in a museum, to me a Rock n Roll hall of fame, that’s more like a mausoleum,

And that is in insult to people who worked hard to achieve something in their lives, something reduced to that.

. . …

began as a sex pistol there was no rock n roll hall of fame, suddenly there is organization that is put on it, put on top of us like we have an obligation to them. Well its the other way around don’t use my name to prop up your @#$$@ nonsense.

good one solo

Word up. http://youtube.com/watch?v=YE_NPxj8K3I

Its the thing you see everywhere . . .

Good people working in organizations where things aren’t optimal.

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In my opinion, its just unfortunate that “Surfing” and “Surftech” were involved.

The tree will ultimately end up at the Surfing Heritage Foundation, where it will belong to all of us. They are the true future of surfing’s history. They exist because Dick Metz and his friends have dumped boatloads or their own sweat, blood, and money into preserving our past. They get nothing but the satisfaction of keeping records and artifacts safe for future generations to study and enjoy. K. The list is not accurate. Sorry. I purposely left out names, but I will mention them here only as they pertain to this list. You have Yancy Spencer as a shaping influence, yet you leave off Steve Forstall from his home town. Yancy is a good surfer and an influence from the standpoint of being a sucessful shop owner and local surfing legend. He deserves credit in that area…but he is not nor has he ever been an influence in building surfboards himself. I think he may have shaped a few, but his talent was always in surfing and promoting his shop. He does have his name on boards others have built…so maybe your counting this. Steve Forstall is a respected shaper from Pensacola who now lives in Indiatlantic. His boards are very popular and his lazor egg design is a fairly uniqe design…(actually copied by Yancy on his boardworks model.)

On your tree you have Brian Waters twice once out of the Skip fry line and then the Hap Jacobs line and then none after him. In fact…Steve Forstall came out of Brian’s factory as did Rick Bullock. There are also a few others. I didn’t see Steve Stack there. He produced Surfboards in Pensacola since the Early nineties up until he recently began only doing them for friends. He had a large factory that employed a few people.

On the Geoff Mccoy part of the tree, you have Mccoy leading only to Greg Pautsh and Mark Richards. Are you saying that these are the only two shapers to come directly out of his influence? It just seems to me if you have a part of the tree wrong or off slightly the entire thing will be off since it’s like a puzzle. All the pieces need to fit.

Surfing Magazine was the first to publish a list like this - in 1989. Because of this, we felt they deserved the chance to print an updated version.

Someone had to pay for the extra paper and printing. Randy French and Surftech owe a lot (and they know it) to the shapers that are on the list. I am not doubting you…but why does he say in his add…that “Surftech” is the future of surfing. Not those shapers he owes so much to. The add reads…The future of surfing is in their (shapers hands) the future of surfboards is in ours. Seems to me thats saying those not with him are not part of the future. Is he willing to give all the shapers on that list that turns out to be an ad for his company a contract with Surftech and pay royalties? He benefited from their names being on his ad. Those names…(that helped his company achieve credibility) are not all Surf tech supporters. I’ve said it on other threads, and I’ll say it again - Randy is a core surfer. He doesn’t only ride Surftechs. He rides everything. He’s a shaper himself. He never set out to snuff out shapers by building Surftechs. The business of large corporations is to snuff out all those who don’t join you. Competition in the surf industry is ruthless. I don’t doubt he is a core surfer…I don’t have anything against him personally. He has always been friendly in our conversations. However, he plays the same protect the big shops that the big clothing companies do. The big department store shops are the ones with the Surf techs usually and the little guys in many towns can’t get them if they wanted them because of bullcrap politics. That big corporate mentality is whats ruined surfing itself…even if it has allowed a few to become weathly. He contributes more back to surfing than most of us. Really? I am curious to see what you call contributing. I see he didn’t tell Surfer magazine to take him out of the issue calling him one of the most important men in surfing. Right there next to some surfers that have actually earned that title. Randy amounts to someone who came in with a unique idea that took off and made him alot of money. I see nothing all that important or special about that. Most of what I have seen in the corpo world of the surf industry is hype. Selling an image to kids that don’t have one of their own. Dale Velzy was the first to sign on… was he a poser? How about Yater… or Robert August… Donald Takayama… Now we have to associate someone that bought into as either a poser or not. I didn’t say anyone was a poser. The just of my piece is Surf Tech and Surfing the institution don’t really speak for the majority of surfers who simply love surfing and board building. I don’t think any of those you mentioned are posers. However…I don’t think the fact that they are involved says anything other than they liked/like making a buck as much as the next guy. What about Rich Harbor? He was part of it and pulled back. I know others that feel the same.

Look… if you’re all about “free” surfing, be a free surfer and don’t buy into anything anyone else is doing. Live off the grid, make your own boards from found materials, and have your own style. You might as well gather and catch your own food and make your own clothes too (or don’t wear any). No one is saying this, but why support over hyped surf brands. In fact…what is a surf brand? You can buy shorts from old navy made just as well as Volcon or Quiksliver for less than half the price. You can buy a surfboard from a local shaper or a shaper from anywhere that will last as long as a Tech if it’s made properly for less money or the same. Many buy Surf techs for the hype done by them and the shops that bought them. I think they have their place…but in my opinion they are part of the problem…not the future as they claim. At least not any future I want part of.

It’s impossible to be part of modern society without buying somewhat into mass produced consumer ptoducts. Do you buy dish soap? How about toilet paper… car… handtools… music… DVDs…

You think Hexcel cares about your soul? Did Grubby Clark? Your right. I think American should not allow doing business with countries like China that take advantage of and mistreat their people. No…I don’t think Amerian business being there helps raise their standard of living. If it did…we would begin seeing the same regulations for workers in Thailand and china we require in America. Child labor laws and etc.

Most of us need to make a living. I’d rather do it in the surf industry - where I get to have “board meetings” and get paid - than by drilling oil, flipping butgers (not Bert Burgers), cleaning porta-potties, pushing meaningless piles of paper, or most other things people have to do to survive. I agree to some degree. If you have to deal with the likes of the giant sell their mother for a buck Surf companies that do nothing but sell the surfing public an image they want them to have…no thanks. An image that for the most part is smart mouth whinning punks. Not a rant…just an observation. I see much of the old surfing attitude in Hawaii and around the states, but you sure have to wade through the junk caused mostly by the companies that make money “off” surfing.

The tree is just something that George Orbelian and I thought should be done. We’ve spent lots of money and countless hours just getting it where it is now. We’ll never make the time or moeny back, but we wanted to put the list out there. It’s simply a list, and not intended to get folks hot under the collar. We put two years into gathering info, then stopped to focus on the software that will make it dynamic and interactive. When it’s online, viewers will be able to interact with it and offer changes and additions. It will be way, way deeper than what’s printed in Surfing Mag. I can appreciate the hard work and effort. I just don’t understand why you would put something that amounts to a glorifed ad for Surf tech in a magazine if you knew it was not accurate or needed other shapes added. The only thing the person reading the magazine will remember are those printed and possibly link them to Surf Tech. It about percieved credibility. Surfing knows it. They are the kings of selling half truths. I think the list itself is an ok idea…I feel like Johnny Rotten does about institution speaking as if surfing owes them anything or that they are some sort of sage for the rest of us that surf. I love surfing…not the business nostalgia that surrounds surfing. Hall of fames and stuff like that are mostly political anyway. You want to see a perfect example …look at the East Coast hall of fame. Those that started it made sure to add themselves and all the folks that supported it or that were their friends and left off some really influential people. When they didn’t put Jeff Crawford former Pipe Master in the first thing and instead put Kathy Philips in you had to know crap would follow …and it has. No thanks…no list of surfers…shapers or anyone else needed. Personal memories will do.

Kendall,

Thank you for the response…well thought out and good for discussion. I am going to respond to you in between your post above. Not wanting to have a nasty debate, but I disagree with much about the way it was done and the accuracy of it. Just wanting be straight about it. Please correct me where I am in error.

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I don’t want to sound like I’m standing on a soap box, so I’ll just pick out a few things to respond to in no particular order…

First off, I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. I had nothing to do with much other than giving Surfing permission to print our list. They made editorial changes based on what they thought was right. We all knew the list wasn’t totally complete (it never will be) but they made the call to publish it since it tied in to the theme of the issue. They also know they’ll print another corrected version down the road.

As I said before, they dropped 440 names from our master list. They also changed a few things they thought weren’t accurate that we did - like Mark Richards told us directly that he came off Brewer, Brewer backed it up, so did Terry Fitzgerald and Reno Abellira - that seemed good enough for us… Surfing somehow decided to change it to come off McCoy. Their printed version has to have each shaper coming off a single other shaper. The online version shows multiple influences, and has way more depth.

Even though I’ve been defending Randy French, we had nothing to do with Surftech placing the ad or its contents. That was the Surfing ad sales guys. They need to have paying advertisors to stay in business (I know you could care less if they stayed in business, but they’ve got 250k readers that buy magazines each month). And you’re right about being able to be core and a capitalist. On one hand, Randy’s trying to sell boards to the masses. On the other hand, he’s got a hat on his desk that says “surfing sucks, don’t try it”. It’s a tough place to be - wanting uncrowded pristine surfspots, and giving kooks the tools to muck the places up. Would you have been happier if the list was sponsored by Quiksilver, Billabong, or Volcom? The nature of magazines is to have ads pay for their existance. It’s that, or charge the readers - like TSJ does. We think the list belongs to all surfers regardless of where it appears.

Our goal all along has been to get a dynamic and interactive version up online. We want it to be as close to right as we can get it, but we know there will be problems at first. That’s why we’re including features that will help with corrections and additions to the list. The ultimate home for the list will be with the Surfing Heritage Foundation. You may also see it used for other applications too (like with Surfing Mag). We consider the list to simply contain information about who helped define the modern surfboard. Raw data.

I also struggle with promoting the whole “image” thing too. As a team rider for Bing in the 70’s, I had my boards made with the smallest logos they’d allow me to have, and they still seemed too big for me. My skis, snowboards, tennis rackets, bicycles, etc were frequently sprayed over with black paint, to hide the corporate IDs. As someone who now makes money in the surf industry, I have to think a bit about promotion. Shapers - even the big ones - have never made the kind of profits that the “lifestyle” companies have. The giants got fat by riding on the backs of the guys that built the foundation. That’s part of our motivation for making the list. Whether or not you buy into it is totally up to you. We did the list for us… just because we wanted to.

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Kendall,

What would you think about a community maintained tree on a public forum like sways? There is so much history and knowledge lurking right here under your very screen. If you would make a forum item with the tree perhaps the reception would be warmer and the feedback more germaine. I can understand that some guys hate the idea of a rnak and file tree and others don’t understand how the placement (by "big industry ~bro deals~) works. For these reasons a community maintained list may be better, more palatable. I would really dig that. That way if Mr. French (or any other bigshot) has something to add, he can register with swaylocks and log in and join the debate. Maybe the standard forum is not the ideal vehicle. maybe we need a wiki type system (www.mediawiki.org)…

The problem with an editorial, is just that, it is edited… maybe some of us here are more raw and uncut than that, maybe the sport is, maybe the shaping is… I dunnoo…

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RE: randy french

I do not want a mechanic working on my car that has never driven ,never owned a car amd maybe never been on a paved road .I feel the same way about my surfboard ,I want it built by a surfer

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I don’t want to sound like I’m standing on a soap box, so I’ll just pick out a few things to respond to in no particular order…

First off, I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. I had nothing to do with much other than giving Surfing permission to print our list. They made editorial changes based on what they thought was right. We all knew the list wasn’t totally complete (it never will be) but they made the call to publish it since it tied in to the theme of the issue. They also know they’ll print another corrected version down the road. That sounds like the Magazine jackals we all know and love. I wouldn’t hold my breathh on them printing the corrected one down the road. It will not matter at that point anyway.

As I said before, they dropped 440 names from our master list. Again showing the rats they really are. Surfers that surf should quit buying their magazines and leave them to the kiddies that don’t know any better. They also changed a few things they thought weren’t accurate that we did - like Mark Richards told us directly that he came off Brewer, Brewer backed it up, so did Terry Fitzgerald and Reno Abellira - that seemed good enough for us… I don’t blame you for using that…it’s funny because I did an interview with Mark last January and he told me Mccoy was his first early influence. I am still working on the film. I will send you a copy when it’s done. M.R. is a real gentleman and one of the few pro legends that actually have something to say worth listening to. That generation had a few…Shaun…Cheyne…Rabbit…would love to hear from Dane as well. Surfing somehow decided to change it to come off McCoy. Damn…I hate to give the buggers credit for anything…but I think they got that one right. Their printed version has to have each shaper coming off a single other shaper. The online version shows multiple influences, and has way more depth.

Even though I’ve been defending Randy French, we had nothing to do with Surftech placing the ad or its contents. That was the Surfing ad sales guys. They need to have paying advertisors to stay in business (I know you could care less if they stayed in business, but they’ve got 250k readers that buy magazines each month). I never really thought you did. I know how those guys work. It’s best to never speak to them or give them anything to muck up …cause they will lie if they see a need to get what they want or give credit to one of their advertisers. And you’re right about being able to be core and a capitalist. On one hand, Randy’s trying to sell boards to the masses. On the other hand, he’s got a hat on his desk that says “surfing sucks, don’t try it”. It’s a tough place to be - wanting uncrowded pristine surfspots, and giving kooks the tools to muck the places up. Would you have been happier if the list was sponsored by Quiksilver, Billabong, or Volcom? The nature of magazines is to have ads pay for their existance. It’s that, or charge the readers - like TSJ does. We think the list belongs to all surfers regardless of where it appears. No …I think Quik and Volcon are as bad or worse than Surfing and Surfer who they pretty much control anyway. You could almost say the mags are an extension of their largest advertisers. Which is why they are the enemy. What is surf fashion anyway?

Our goal all along has been to get a dynamic and interactive version up online. We want it to be as close to right as we can get it, but we know there will be problems at first. That’s why we’re including features that will help with corrections and additions to the list. The ultimate home for the list will be with the Surfing Heritage Foundation. You may also see it used for other applications too (like with Surfing Mag). We consider the list to simply contain information about who helped define the modern surfboard. Raw data. I like this idea…but the fight will again be those who sponsor it and those second tier shapers that think they should be on the list for credibility’s sake. Seriously …the guys that have been around producing quality surfboards get linked in as the same as some guy that started a couple of years ago and believes because alot surfers ride his boards that qualifies him as a Master Shaper. Or …the list can simply be whoever picked up a blank and carved it once. Interesting idea…but still has the potential like foundations…Hall of fames and others to become an institution that attempts to be the authority. Not saying thats your intention…but as with what Surfing did…things can leave your direct control.

I also struggle with promoting the whole “image” thing too. As a team rider for Bing in the 70’s, I had my boards made with the smallest logos they’d allow me to have, and they still seemed too big for me. My skis, snowboards, tennis rackets, bicycles, etc were frequently sprayed over with black paint, to hide the corporate IDs. As someone who now makes money in the surf industry, I have to think a bit about promotion. Shapers - even the big ones - have never made the kind of profits that the “lifestyle” companies have. The giants got fat by riding on the backs of the guys that built the foundation. That’s part of our motivation for making the list. Whether or not you buy into it is totally up to you. We did the list for us… just because we wanted to. You will not get much argument from me here…so true. Just remember when you join with skunks to promote…your gonna get some of their stink on ya. Ha Ha.

Great response Kendell. I think your heart is in the right place…kudos to that. As usual…the Magazines take liberty to toss bones to those that buy their fame and influence instead of those who have earned it over years. As long as I continue to surf and love it …I will speak out against those institutions claiming to be the sage for the rest of us. I have delt with them in my own shops and other things within surfing. They will all sell their kids to make a buck. I see the image that even middle aged and older surfers try and keep mostly because of the influence of Mags and Clothing companies. It’s kind of pathetic really…Surfer fashion…Surfer attitude…Surfer music…Surfer floor mats. I love the older Surfer Tees prior to “the surf industry” because they used to simply identify something ( a shaper perhaps) or with something ( a theme of the times). Now things are created to artificially produce an identity that is nothing but the logo itself. Take for instance…Volcon. What is that…Youth against establisment…Ha Ha…they are the establisment. What does a stone have to do with surfing? All the kiddies wearing it to be different are all wearing the same thing and calling it the surfer look.

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…free surf is a wrong term…

there re no free surf, there re surfing and comp pro surfing and other related stuff are part of…

…I m still thinking that the tree should have 2 lines. The production shapers and the other shapers. (also I know some shapers who shaped thousands-included all the steps- and dont have a clue about design…)

…the kooks or stupid surfers or posers only take the writed words in mags, they dont mind in the online version…

…and, the surfing mag will put gigantic an add telling that now there s an online version?..

…like I told you before, what happened with shapers and boardbuilders from far places?..

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What would you think about a community maintained tree on a public forum like sways?

Could be a good thing. One thing we’re worried about is making reasonably sure that the info we post is correct. The problem with having the list completely public and using wikis, is that it would also be vulnerable to misinformation. All it would take is some disgruntled user to muck the whole thing up. We’ll be using a hybrid model, where people can suggest additions and corrections, they’ll be varified (as much as possible), then implemented.

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I asked this question (half-seriously) when this topic came up at the surfermag forum, and got no serious responses, but I am curious…

Hypothetically speaking, if you have an all-inclusive list (which this list is admittedly not)… Under which lineage does the solely swaylocks-inspired and -educated shaper go?

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that would be, spontaneous genetic mutation… Which is a good thing, right?

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that would be, spontaneous genetic mutation… Which is a good thing, right?

I am a spontaneously mutated defect. I proudly go under the Melville Sways get together branch of tree. AND my board worked at well OH Cliffs today.

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Kendall

I appreciate the hard work involved as I’m still trying to complete my Sways board building reference archive. I hope it gets posted om sways in the reference section when done.

Just relaying a comment I heard from several guys way up on the list, but how does a guy like DK end up on there and in the Reef Board Builders Build off for the convention? Alot of guys who’ve paid their dues kind of think of it as an insult. Hell Keith, John and a host of others here should be there too then…

Anyway aside from passing that on…

I think it would be neat of each one of these names was actually a link to a bio page that also showcased pictures and dimensions of their best work so people can see the evolution of the craft as interpreted by it proponents. I’d also like to see the number of boards produced who they worked for over the course of their career and what they are doing today or what they were doing when they died and how (that would speak volumes for the illusion in my opinion). That could be placed in museum in a electronic kiosk so people can actually learn something from the list than to just look and see if they know any names on it. That’s they way I’d do it… But it’s just a suggestion. If you have the info some college or high school kid could probably build out flash presentation for you for free.

Finally this should be done for all the greats shapers, glassers, sanders, pinliner and artists as well…

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Kendall

Just relaying a comment I heard from several guys way up on the list, but how does a guy like DK end up on there and in the Reef Board Builders Build off for the convention? Alot of guys who’ve paid their dues kind of think of it as an insult. Hell Keith, John and a host of others here should be there too then…

Like I’ve said before… it’s just a list. We started down this path thinking we’d get it as close as we could, then turn it over to someone else to update and correct - probably the Surfing Heritage Foundation. We knew when we put it up for the first time we’d get people telling us we made mistakes - we knew we made mistakes… we just didn’t know which ones yet.

We didn’t want to insult anyone, and we don’t want it to be political. We want people who deserve a place in it to be there. I don’t want to be the guy who ultimately makes those decisions. I just want to surf… but I commited to getting this to a certain point.

I had nothing to do with Reef’s Board Builders Build-Off. That was someone else’s commercially driven event.

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I think it would be neat of each one of these names was actually a link to a bio page that also showcased pictures and dimensions of their best work so people can see the evolution of the craft as interpreted by it proponents. I'd also like to see the number of boards produced who they worked for over the course of their career and what they are doing today or what they were doing when they died and how (that would speak volumes for the illusion in my opinion). That could be placed in museum in a electronic kiosk so people can actually learn something from the list than to just look and see if they know any names on it. That's they way I'd do it.. But it's just a suggestion. If you have the info some college or high school kid could probably build out flash presentation for you for free.

That’s all in the online version. There’s room for bios, photos, audio, video, boards, surfers, and all kinds of other stuff. We’re making some kick-ass software for the tree. We’re into it for several hundred grand so far, and we’ve still got a way to go. Our lead developer was one of the primary guys who developed the iPod, along with a bunch of other cool tech stuff. We’ve got seven full-time programmers working for us.

When we started down this road, we knew what we wanted to do, but the technology didn’t exist. We decided to create it. Our soul is in surfing, so that’s where we’re focused while making the technology work… but since we’ve spent tons of of cash, we’ll need to make some of it back eventually. We’ll do that by licensing or selling the tech to other markets outside of surfing.

The backend of our tree is a Content Management System that contains huge amounts of raw data. This data is stored in a way that we can access it any way we want. The frontend is a combination of Flash, Flex (next generation Flash), and our own proprietary software. The backend will live somewhere like SHF, where they can keep it up to date whithout regard for commercial interests. Their focus is preserving the history of surfing for future generations. The frontend can be displayed in multiple places in almost unlimited ways. SHF will have their version, and other groups (some commercially driven) may have their own versions tailored to their needs.

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Finally this should be done for all the greats shapers, glassers, sanders, pinliner and artists as well…

I totally agree. We can do this, but first we have to get this beast up and live. Just getting shapers to a point where we could talk about it was huge - and you can see how that has been an uphill climb. Once we go live we’ll be able to hand off to others that can push it to the next levels. We’re creating the tools to manage tons of data. We have been using shapers to flush the system out. Soon (really soon) I’d like to hand off to someone else who can take the flack for getting stuff wrong : )