nice !
‘versa’
‘six shooter’…
…
…"bushfire’ fish
"prawn ’ …
an inter-continental multi-fin option family …THAT’S what I like !
and , was that a four / six channel I spied under one of those boards ?? if so , do you have a shot of THAT , and the fin setup on that please , Al ?
cheers
ben
Not sure which one you mean? I have enclosed some pictures of the only one with channels in the tail a la “bonzer” . Made circa 1993. Been under bushes a long time, This was a REALLY fast board I made for a friend mine who knew how to surf it. He retired from surfing and got fat. No one has used the board since. If this is not the one let me know. Of all of em the Six Shooter design is ONE OF THE BEST. Especially on a small fish type board. Handles wide tails 16 to 17’’ really well. FASSSST loose and big laid out speed turns. Work even better with a big diamond tail, no swallow tail “glitch” in the turns. It has been a long time since i have looked at some of these things, lots of memories. I still make surfboards but am too close to retail and have to make what sells. I try and keep as much of this stuff in the boards as i can but, people just want to play it safe.
Here is the last it, The cutaway fin i designed in 1991, Kind of bitch to foil 2 separate planes, The Blackjack fin is a big version of what I designed for the original Bonzer, The large ones worked unreal on the old style noseriders I was shaping for BING. designed Around 1988/9 They gave a really ‘‘new’’ feel to a old style hull. Real kelp catchers. Belive it or not, super good noserides. Held in really good. Real snappy turns, kind of a muti fin feel. Now everybodys gotta have giant fins? Hope you enjoy this stuff.
This is a good thread fo sho. Was wondering about doing the concaves… how and where? 5fin vs 3fin concaves?
I owned and rode two different ACE designs. Both 7-2 swallows. Both worked great. One was his five finned hatchet finned channeled board. The other was a flat panneled six fin. My favorite and one of my all time favorite board was the five fin. Oh, I also rode one of his squash tail thrusters. Good board, too. Five fin was the ONE, though. Pretty complex design for a hobby shaper. Mike
“The problem is when it comes to producing “alternative” designs people with limited or no experince jump on the $bandwagon$ and can produce bad riding boards. This can kill the whole deal”
Amen to that Ace. I see alot of poorly built Bonzers out there these days. Some people think that just putting 5 fins on a board automatically makes it a Bonzer. The Campbell bros have been refining these things since the early 70’s. Now, or course everything works…to some extent, and not trying to tell people to make them one way. But if you really want to feel the full Bonzer 5 effect, you should at least attempt to set them up the proper way. Ace has tons of experience shaping them, and variations of them and his opinion is well worthy. The Campbell bros design revolves around the side runners set at minimum 18 to 22 degrees, and they work together with the double concave going into a vee that runs off the tail. They are also set about 11" up for the rear side runners (on an under 7 foot board) and about 16"+ for the front runners. Using less angle like 10 or 12 degrees can make the board ride sticky, and not give you that lift through turns. You also cant just go sticking boxes all over the place and think you have a Bonzer. A standard quad has the rear fins at around 5.5, and the fronts at around 11. Putting Bonzer rear side runners at 5.5 and the front runners at 11 is not gonna give you anything close to a Bonzer feel. The 2 aren’t really interchangeable. Distance from the rail is usually different as well. Combine all that with their 6.5 or 7.0 pivot style (low rake) center fin template set at approx. 5.75, and you get that 5th gear you hear so much about.
This is probably about 20 degrees -
A quick look at these photos will show that quads and Bonzers are set-up completely different -
Great info on the fin setup. I never related a bonzer style to a quad setup anyhow. I guess I see how some people might think they are so similar that they would be in fact interchangeable.
So do you have any great info on shaping the contours on the bottom?
You are right Originalsin, most people never related a Bonzer Style board to a Quad Style board until now, with this VERSA-PLANE board that Matt Calvanti of Bing came up with using Proboxes which made this combination possible. Notice the pic to the left with Bonzer style runners canted out and Proboxes in the concave. Notice the middle pic with 5 fin set-up and then take a look to the pic at the right with a Quad set-up. This same board going from Bonzer mode to Quad mode looks extremely different with the use of ProBoxes. Stoked to see you are Happy with your ProBox package. ACE really like the testing process you went thru to find answers, good stuff. Mahalo,Larry
…whats your opinion about to do the side runners double foiled?
I have been trying to resolve a common fin set up between Quad & Bonzer on paper, without compromising performance. Assuming the Quad will get along with the concaves and V, which I suspect it will to a fair extent. I can’t seem to reconcile a common position
The toe in is the same and thats it Any ideas ?
Thats a great comparison diagram for the fins.
Really though, trying to demystify how to shape the hull and get those tricky concaves done right. Any tips and tricks on that?
I can really “demystify” it for you DON"T USE THE CONCAVES! Really, I stopped using them along time ago when I realized “the fins are DOING what the concaves were trying to do”. I know this goes against what everyone thinks a BONZER should be but for me its all about a certain “feeling” you get when all the fins are in alignment. When you get it right you will know it. This is where a box system that allows some adjustment can really help. Originally I used a Bahne twin fin box than went to Lok Box. There might be others out there Hard to keep up with with all this fin box stuff. If someone has a “new” one for me to try bring it by we will see if it works. The afore mentioned work based on my experience. Now I have a “findicator jig” that has lots of holes and marks for all kinds of possibilities. Making boards like my “versa-board” {versa-plane? every time I look at my Rockwell hmm.} really opened up the possibilities.
If you still fell a giant need for concaves they way we used to do em was with a ''electric rolling pin". Kind of a bizarre contraption. The other way would be to use your power sander, yea I use one on every board, ON EDGE CAREFULLY sculpt out the concaves AFTER marking out your fins. Or a half round surform blade will work. I had a curved piece of wood with 24 grit glued to it that worked pretty good to. Main thing is to mark out where your fins/boxes are going to be so the dont end up in a “valley” somewhere.
As far as how they should “feel” if the board is stiff to turn and feels like you are “dragging a bucket” they, the fins, are either to far back OR not aligned right. Usually to close together. If the board “tracks” on the face and wont release the fins are too far up. When they are set up right the board will not feel “finney” at all. ACE
Hi ACE, Are you at the OB shop? I will send you out a install kit Tues. Yes you are also right rockwell let the name die so I registered the name VERSA-PLANE, Versatile Planning Surfboard, KEEN EYE ACE nothing gets past you, I like that. Mahalo,Larry
heya burnsie,
was this ever resolved ? would be great to see updated diagrams
cheers,
