This is in response to Shwuz’s question about the bonzer 3 set up.
I had been thinking to start this thread for quite some time. ( I don’t mean to pre empt you Shwuz).
I wanted to do so so that anyone who had any questions about bonzers would find the answers in one place.
I decided to do this because I, too , was trying to find what the cant angle on a bonzer5 is and couldn’t find a definitive answer in the archives. I did find a pic of the moonlight glassing bonzer jig (attached) which leads me to guess the cant is about 20 to 25 degrees. Neither could I find out how deep the concaves are, or toe angles. So gentlemen please post your questions and answers here.
A question to start this thread- has anyone played with more or less cant- say 10 degrees? Or even a thruster cant of 4-7 degrees? What effect would that have?
I shaped Bonzers from 1981 to about 1995 for Mike Eaton. At one point Eaton told me I had shaped more “Eatons” than he had. I shaped several thousand of em. I guess this gives me some background on Bonzers. We had a jig that slide around on the blank and had the placement of the side fins and center box. Good starting points would be, 9’ board side fins 14" from tail 1 1/2" from rail toed in 3/8" center fin 8" up. 8’ board side fins 13" same to in etc. move center fin back 1". 7’ board side fins 12" etc, Get it? 1" per foot up or back. The angle is around 30 degrees NOT SUPER CRITICAL. As far as the channels went I used a “electric rolling pin” with floor sanding paper. ALL done by eye!! Don’t forget to leave room for the box. The side fins where about 6" long and 3" high, older ones were about 7" long 2 3/4 high, Make em out of glass not as thich as a regular fin the plastic ones were JUNK. Way to many failures. Bonzers are very sensitive about center fin size and placement. I have inclosed some pics of fins that worked. old style “pud” fin and a fin I designd in early 80’s that worked really good. Gave em a little more bite in the turns. I don’t make em anymore 5fins and 6 fins do way more water bending than scooping out all that foam and they paddle way better. Plus freeing up bottom for contours that work WAY better. I will add more photos below. One more thing 3 fin bonzers worked best with narrower tails 14’’ was avg.
More pics. the board was the FIRST bonzer “ZINGER” my idea a twin fin bonzer inspired by Will Jobsens “twinzers” . we used one of my asymetrical twin fins for a guinea pig WORKED UNREAL. still had it buried under bushes in the yard.
ace, going to make myself a 6’6 x 21 1/2 x 2 3/4 w 16 1/2n x 15t zinger egg. i already have the 5 1/2 eaton template main twin fins (single foiled) and 5 3/4 base x 3 depth bonzer fins what kind of fin placements including fin toe in and fin cant would you recommend?
with a three fin bonzer with a 14" tail , what would the nose and the wide point measurements have been on , say, a typical 6’ to maybe 6’4 " [?] one ?
I had a bonzer bottom single fin , believe it or not , with a narrow ‘ski tail’ [remember them ??] , and it had a LOT of thickness under my chest . It also had the wide point fairly far forward of centre [I wish I had measured it , now I think of it …]
Jeez what have I done? I’m old and this whole Bonzer thing was alot of foam ago. I was talking to Mike Diffenderfer before he died, he was shaping one of his beautifull chambered balsa boards, and he gave me a “tree to sea” shaping lession. The whole thing took about 5 minutes{ I have shaped several balsa boards so I was able to keep up with him} when he finished his “lesson” he cocked his head and said “got it?” and went back to work. I think I covered most of the qustions in my first rambling. But I was hungry and dinner was getting cold. OK first I want to say there are NO SET RULES, or MAGIC NUMBERS. One of the first things I was told when I got my first “real” shaping job with a “famous” shaper, and I was busy measuring EVERYTHING was if I was going to work for him throw all that stuff away and learn to SEE the board. For me that clicked. I learned to start a board only AFTER it was “finished”, GOT IT? That said, 14 inch wide tailed bonzers had 15 -15 1/2" noses, noseriders wider, see already broke a “rule”. As far as angles I will enclose more pics, and hopefully these will give a good idea of how they are supposed to “look” Channel depth was done by eye blanks differ so you had to look at what you were working with. Over the years MY channels kept shrinking as the number of fins increasd. I now use flat paneled V and no channels on all my single fin and multi fin boards hum? A good test of bonzer, zinger type boards is if they don’t snap out of the turns and they track on the face, NOT RELEASING, the fins, big ones, not the “runners” are too far up. If the board is hard to turn and feel like it is “dragging a bucket” to far back.The 4 fin Zingers were HORRIBLE in white water, fifth fin/finlet worked, you would be supprised how small a fin you could use and fix em. The good ones turn at full speed, go anywhere on a wave, and make a distinct WHOOSHING sound in the turns. Hope this helps or at least sparks some ideas maybe some that have not been tried. Maybe you will wake up in the middle of the night with a " duh, twin fin bonzer" idea and put YOUR idea into foam, or whatever, into the water.
Hi ACE! Thanks for all the info and pictures. If You have the time I have couple of questions.
First of all, I’d like to say that my bonzer experience is limited. I got a bonzer made by a shaper in HB california called Michael Ward.
I needed a fast board for surfing fast waves breaking on limestone ledges. Didn’t know what to expect from a bonzer other than what I’d read on the internet and in surfmags.
I reckon the bonzer I have is an unreal board in some ways, the thing that sets it apart most is the speed You can get in fast sections.
The board just accelerates unlike any of my other boards, it also makes some weird sort of “watersucking” noises once it gets into fifth gear.
The cons? I don’t know about other bonzers but my board sometimes feels a little stiff and occasionally jets off and nosedives on steep takeoffs.
In Your opinion, is the bonzer concept still valid today?
What would You consider to be the pros and cons of the bonzer design?
Thanks again ACE. I like the “NO SET RULES” but rather just “SEEING” mind set.
I think the Campbell Brothers also reduced the depth of their concaves.
The reason I asked for, let’s call them guidelines, is because the Brother’s 5 fins all look very similar in fin set up and fin profile (albeit on very diverse outlines). I can’t but imagine that they’ve done a lot of experimenting and R + D. If they settled on a certain set up I’m assuming that their R + D brought them to that set up. If, eventually, I decide to make a bonzer (and invest my hard earned greenbacks) I would like to do everything I can to avoid making a dog. Avail myself of the community’s accumulated wisdom.
You already answered my next question about using a smaller center fin. Shallow concaves, smaller center fin…starting to sound like a thruster.
I had read [here ?] [surfer?] that the two side runners earlier on were big [like 9" base big?!] , and that ,when they became ‘bonzer5’ designs , the combined base measurements of the two runners equalled the old single runner’s base .
Your bonzer 3 runners look and are smaller based .
reason/s ?
… less tracky ?
… more pivotal ?
… less concave in the bottom of your board ?
just curious !
this is a setup [admittedly , on a concave-less bottom] I really enjoy the most so far , out of all the fin setups I have tried to date in my 5’8 fish …
I will try and answer everybodys questions. Why the smaller runners? More pivotal, yes. Less tracky, yes. I use no concaves, why? I have found that flat paneled V works with the designs. Helps the board get on edge in the turns. Do i think “bonzers” are still valid? Doesn’t matter what I think, if you like em and they work for you, ITS VALID. Pros,bonzers, zingers, twinzers etc been around a long time must be something there. Cons, all the multi fin boards i have used are very pickey about fin “arrangement”. Takes a lot of trial and ERROR the only way to learn. The good ones can be “magic” . The problem is when it comes to producing “alternative” designs people with limited or no experince jump on the $bandwagon$ and can produce bad riding boards. This can kill the whole deal. Plus they are too hard to sell. Especially when the average kid working in a surf shop thinks shortboarding started with Kelly Slatter. Longbords were invented by Joel Tudor. And ultimatly, “you only need one fin” as i was told by Brad Buben RIP several years ago while carrying one of my secert weapons to a very localized spot. I have inclosed a bunch of pictures of “bonzer” possiblities some are exactly what I am using today others are how I got there, Maybe you will see something interesting and give it a go.
