Bottom Feeder, vs RV, vs Couch Potato, vs Average Joe vs V2 Stub vs FISH

General Discussion
1

So I’m looking to get a new small wave board but I’m struggling. I’m currently riding a 5’10" x 22" x 2.9" fish. I’m not sure if it’s me, or the fact that it was shaped by a new-ish shaper who may not be that good yet, but I have a real hard time getting on rail and turning the board. 

When I first got the board I loved it, but that’s because I was still riding longer boards and when I started on the fish, I was amazed at how easily it caught waves and how turny it was compared to my longer boards. I think it also needs the right type of wave, more mushy and flat. I was out on Friday and it seems like the fish could not get on rail in a steep wave and because of the lack of turnability, if I didn’t catch it just right, I’d go down, because I couldn’t correct to get on rail.

So anyways, I’m considering one of the boards in the title other than the fish. A few questions:

  • Is the fish hard to turn because of the tail or because of the 22" width?
  • Could it be that the extreme thickiness of the board makes it hard to get on rail?
  • Are these other boards I'm considering really that different? For example the couch potato, bottom feeder, avg joe and RV all have very similar outlines, will they surf that much differently?
  • I'm looking for a board for knee high up to chest or head, when it gets bigger than that, I have a firewire hellfire
2

Spread a few hundred thousand nano particles on the underside…dawn patrol at low tide…Set your goals a little higher than couch potato. Kelly can ride anything …so can JOB.

you can do it !

 

3

…and I’m not average…are you?

4

I’m certainly not good, still learning. and I’m old, 38. not sure if my body will let me get too much better…

5

My advice:  Ride the heck out of the firewire in all conditions.

6

You are not old.  I started surfing at 50.  My first shorter board was a 6’2x21 quad fish.  Great board but I struggled as you described.  Hard to get the board set up and turned on rail.  I was too quick to the bottom and on pitchy waves I would get closed out.  Someone suggested I go shorter.  Given my age and ability I doubted this advice.  I am 5’10 165#.  Reluctantly I took it and built my self a 5’7x22 with an outline similar to the Firewire baked potato.  Unbelievable to me, but the advice was correct.  I could still catch waves easily on the shorter board but more importantly, I was able to get turned and on rail much more effeciently.  All I can figure is that a larger board with a flat rocker can easily get away from you. Going shorter mitigates that problem.   Since then I built a 5’6x21 that is also super fun in small to medium surf.

7

Fish type boards are riden like a skateboard, you will hear people tell you they are “skatey”. What I have found out from fish shapes, is that you need to stay over the top of them. They work ok going front side because you can dig you toes in, but when you go back side you have a hard time hanging your ass over the rail and doing a proper bottom turn.  This is all becase of what you mentioned above. 1) a big wide butt, 2) funky fins. 3) thickness. 4) flat rocker, 5) down rails. You really need to understand surfing and surfboards to be a fish guy, I love to see all the guysat my breaks riding fish shapes…It means more set waves for old Resinhead…Fish shapes have a place in your quiver,  but I view them as more of a speciality item, they are like old classic logs, and 10 ft guns.

I’ve never seen you surf so recommendations are just that…more of a personal preference.  If you are a 38 year old long boarded that doesn’t get out much…this is telling me a few assumptions:  1) you are a beginner that did not grow up surfing? (meaning you took up surfing past the age of 25). 2) You are 38 and over weight? 3) you live some place where there are no waves…or 4) you are tryng to revive something that was awesome in the past? 5) work and family has tied up your free time…and you live too far from the ocean to just stop by for a surf.

My advice to you is forget about these little slipper type boards 5’10" boards only get in the way of everybody, only the best surfers can surf a board sub 6’3’" and most of those guys weigh about 120 lbs.  So you need to give us more information about you…but if you are something like 5’10" and 200 lbs, and only surf ocassionally, and a are a marginal surfer, then you have need to suck it up and look into more traditional shapes if you want wave count, speed, manuverability.  There are many shapes that will make you a better surfer…right now, and they have nothing to do with a “Bottom Dewller Silver Nipple Couch Rocket with a trailer RV”

One more thing: Stingray, what the heck are you talking about in the above post?..Nano, Nano?

 

 

8

Thanks lbatbeach, good to know. Resinhead I live in SD and surf every weekend at least once sometimes twice. Generally the waves are slow and mushy in SD, and to make matters worse I often avoid the better breaks to avoid crowds. I weigh 180, am 38 and started surfing 4 years ago. I will never be Kelly slater, but I am in decent shape and want to push myself

Mako, good advice, I probably switch boards too often

9

Garek - you might be a prime candidate for a Stoker-V type board, probably worth looking into, at least.  There is an ongoing thread in the other folder (see link below), which chronicles not only the Stoker-V’s, but a variety of other shapes made for people in your demographic.  Bruce Fowler has really dedicated himself to making boards for the “other” surfers  who (due to age, weight, health or injury) don’t ride the glass slippers commonly sold in surf shops, but who want something a little more “short-board” oriented than a malibu style longboard or the midlength scaled down longboard shape.

http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/stoker-v-machine?page=13

10

Thanks Huck I’ll check it out. I think I’ve seen people riding these style boarts before

11

What a coincidence!!! I’m in San Diego too!   It’s too bad you don’t get to better breaks, because we have a few world class waves that are anything but slow and mushy.  Good luck in your quest for the right surfboard. It took me years to figure out. I kept trying to fit my 6’2 , 220 lb frame into a kelly slater style board.  If you do the beach breaks, then you might be able to get away with one of those little boards, but then you are going to get schooled by the 17 year old kid all day long. If you surf the reef and points, then you need a bigger board…if not then you are going to get schooled by the old guys on the 8’somethingnsized boards.  San Diego is a very special place to surf there are so many different style of waves to surf…good luck see you in the water.

12

…first, no doubt Resinhead has the funniest comments on this forum; Stingray is building up his way too.

 

Anyway, Resinhead is right in his comment #7.

First mistake is to think that a fish is a board for a beginner.

Not good for mushy conditions.

I bet that you have a twin keel retro fish; and that s even worst for a rookie.

Then you have a too big fish for your weight.

So there are your problems with that design.

If you still wants a fish, you should enhance the design to a modern fish or rocket fish, but those are more HP oriented designs.

 

13

Reverb, no it’s not a retro fish. It is a quad, by a rookie shaper. I didn’t know those designs were meant for more advanced surfers. Respect… I get it now. Yes resinhead, I can ride longer boards… But I’d like to put that off as long as I can, and in the meantime try something shorter. Rather than suggest bigger boards, can you help?

14

Of course I can help. Im the psyco therapist of surfing.  So not to drop names…I was surfnig last Saturday with Peter Townsend…yes, PT.  We got into a discussion about board material and how it has revolutionized surfing.  His buddy had a truck load of RP surfboards (Robin Prodinivich (sp))  As we were going through all the different shape…about 6 or so, it blew me away how heavy they were.  They were all about 5-6 lbs heavier than the boards I ride.  So the discussion started up about swing weight, performance, length etc.  PT has a few of boards in EPS epoxy and has seen the change in surfing too. So what has all this to do besides name dropping BS.

  1. Nose swing weight in your surfboard is a big deal. A lighter board will swing faster than a heavy board…you can push a lighter board around faster than a heavier board.  A lighter board will redirect faster than a heavier board.

  2. So what does this mean?  It means you can surf a bigger board like a shorter board.  I can surf my EPS 7’6" like my old Poly 6’6".  Or my 8’0" EPS is like my old poly 7’6".   So for you, I wouldn’t get caught up in the shape of the Golden Potato Wedge, everybody thinks there shape is the greatest, but most manufacturers make them in poly resin.   Find someone who can make a light weight EPS Epoxy board, and get it made by someone who understands our local waves.   Don’t get a Super Nugget Slippery Nipple designed by someone in Florida or Hawaii, or even Northern California.

  3. Try a bunch of boards, find out what you like…don’t force yourself into the Big Boy Crouch Rocket VI, there is a lot out there, and I would personally start with something a bit more mundane, something around 6’6"

15

Don’t discount the bigger boards they can work. Actions speak louder than words.

Big board smal mushy day, like you talked about.

https://swaylocks7stage.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/go%20pro%2016.jpg

16

Thanks dude. Robin is a shaper I was considering insured of buying off the rack. I’m not sure if he does epoxy. The list shapes intrigued me because Matt biolos days he shapes them for bigger guys, and average surfers. I could go 6’6", but I’m concerned about not being able to turn the board at that length, and also the risk of pearling on smaller waves

17

I was kind of where you were about 5-6 years ago.  I hadn’t surfed regularly in a long time, was out of shape and not surfing much.  Paddling out once a week isn’t going to do it.  If you want to get into it or back into it, you need to be out every day or at least 4-5 days a week.  If you can’t or are unwilling to make that commitment, stick to something longer that will let you get waves.

No 22" board is going to turn particuarly well, especially not at 3" thick. IMO there are no shortcuts to riding smaller boards other than putting in the time and the effort.  70% is conditioning and 30% is timing/reflexes.  There is no reason you can’t eventually be riding shortboards at your age, but not if you’re surfing once a week.

In the meantime, getting your wave count up is the most important thing - and doing so in quality surf.

18

I’m gonna disagree a little about going shorter just because if you can get to the ability level (a little better than intermediate?) and fitness level (able to catch most session-worthy waves up to 1.5OH and larger dependably on a well-designed board of about 34-36L at 180 lbs), there are so many cool, fun design options out there in the 5’ 6" (and even smaller) up to 6’ 3" range out there for you.

I’m 215 lbs and surf “OK” at 46 – a little bit better than “intermediate” – surfing most every day (I surfed as a kid, didn’t surf for 20 years).  When I first started making boards, I packed on the volume and the thick rails because (1) skinny little shapers in Santa Cruz rarely seem to understand how much volume big guys need and it was a pleasure to play around with huge amounts of foam in my same board lengths and (2) I can sink a thick rail at my weight.  Since then, though, as my surfing’s gotten better, I’m gradually bringing the volume down, and going shorter and smaller, especially as my rocker designs and foils improve (causing the way my boards catch and enter waves to improve).

The trick is to get the balance of rail style and buoyancy, hull design, planshape and fin layout all working together.  It sounds like for you your fish has something that was off about it for the waves you were in the day that the board disappointed you.  My guess would be it was a combination of board-to-wave-mismatch, rail design issues, and rocker issues overall.

In my experience, at 180 you really don’t want that much thicker of a rail than a smaller guy (i.e. than the normal production range thickness).  It sounds like there’s a good chance your (relatively noob) shaper has your rails wrong for your weight and ability/style at present.

Beginning shapers (I speak as one who is just now starting to make some decent rockers) rarely make good rails or good rockers, suited to the intended rider, unless they’re copying someone else’s design obsessively.  I never made a board with a really good rocker til I copied a CI Whip.  Only now after 16 boards do I feel like I kind of understand what rail shape/thickness to make for myself.  I made a few boards with OK rockers before that, by sheer dumb luck, but never one as good as when I copied the CI.  I made rails that worked in the past, but not as well as the rails I’m making as I get better at shaping and get a better feel for how to judge how water will or won’t bunch along the rail line when I run my hands up and down the rails.

All of that said, you can probably make that fish work if you just have enough fin options and find the right combination.  Probably a larger fin that still allows you to go fast enough will help.

In terms of another rec for a small wave board, there are all kinds of Simmons hybrids out there, now.  I have the most fun on my Simmons hybrids when waves are under waist high.  That or longboarding.

 

19

batfische that’s my point exactly! plenty of time for me to ride longboards when I’m 107! Right now, I want to push myself to ride the cool, fun designs that are being introduced like the lost domesticated series or Rusty Dwart. If I understand correctly, those shapes are adaptations of the mini simmons anyways.

Also, is there such a thing as “too much” volume for a given height? When I’ve demo’d boards in the past I think I’ve often gone too big and it seems like they almost have too much float.

20

As you already have one of these, I’d say learn how to ride it.  It’s a good board.  There is no magic board that will make you surf better than you will on this board.  Save your money.  It isn’t the arrows…It’s the indian.  No offense intended to our native americain friends.