This quote just came from another thread, but I wanted to hear more from others. I have been using acetone and haven’t had any problems … at least any that I have noticed.
never had a prob. wipeing down cured epoxy with acetone. But it will leave it stickey if you use it to thin uncured epoxy.
In Gerg Loehr’s RR epoxy primer thread the no acetone was for health reasons.
The acetone gets the epoxy past your skin and into your blood.
Epoxy is a skin sensitiser and with acetone you can develop an allergy.
Denatured alcohol works fine.
Ian
I’m not a chemist, nor do I play one on TV. I believe I’m the source of the original quote, though, and I stand by it.
I can’t point to a source nor can I explain it scientifically…but I have a pretty dang good memory for these things, and I just think I read somewhere that acetone was not only unhealthful to use with epoxy, but also interfered with the reaction.
Believe it or don’t; no skin off my nose. I don’t touch the stuff (acetone).
Whether you belive that it inhibits the reaction or not, there’s no real reason to use it. I wipe down boards with DNA before hotcoating (unless they’re still sticky) and it works great.
There is a theory that acetone (and some other thinners) does not fully evaporate from the resin before it cures, especially if thick resin is used. The result can be that the acetone is trying to evaporate after the resin gels and cures (especially in warm conditions). This might result in blisters and delamination…
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I’m not a chemist, nor do I play one on TV. I believe I’m the source of the original quote, though, and I stand by it.
I can’t point to a source nor can I explain it scientifically…but I have a pretty dang good memory for these things, and I just think I read somewhere that acetone was not only unhealthful to use with epoxy, but also interfered with the reaction.
Believe it or don’t; no skin off my nose. I don’t touch the stuff (acetone).
There are many reasons not to use acetone. One of them is that it is a solvent. This is important because as a solvent and a basic ketone, it has a chemical effect on the epoxy. Actually Acetone is used in the creation of one of the epoxide components, Bisphenol-A… Apart from the epoxy health reasons (allergies) Acetone will help you get kidney, liver and all sorts of diseases…
A thinner will not react but will, as the name says, thin the product. So Xyleen, tolueen and the likes will not interfere with the reaction but will simply thin the stuff.
Tolueen is benzeen aromatic hydrocarbon. It is also a very toxic chemical that can destroy red blood cells… Xyleen is similar, a dimethyl benzeen and is even more dangerous when inhaled.
So you’r damned either way! ResinResearch has this famous additive F which seems to do the magic without killing people. From their MSDS you can see it is Xyleen based so that is part of the magic sauce. The trick is carefull and minute dosage. Alternatives are thinners like turpentine, wood alcohol, white spirit. These are all hydrocarbon based aromatic benzeen relatives. They should work when used in MINUTE amounts, a couple of drops. But again these are flammable and dangerous chemicals so take you health seriously.
Also, as mentioned in another thread, keep this stuff clear away from polyester catalyst, MEKP. MEKP is one of the most dangerous checmicals available to the public and it will cause nasty reactions with most other checmicals in your shape lab if given the opportunity, even dust can be dangerous around peroxides!!
I am not a trained chemist either but I have read, played and seen enough of this stuff, and my caution is from experience.
Maybe a trained chemist out there can iron out any mistakes I may have here but I will try to err on the side of caution…
Maybe it’s the environment here. I live in a humid rain forest. Whenever I wipe down a board with dna before a hotcoat, it does not seem to evaporate. My tape will not stick to the board. If I bust out the acetone–no problems. I just wear chemical gloves.
Hell, until I started making boards, I used to clean my hands with the stuff. 20 plus years of ding repairs etc…Sure, my memory isn’t that good. But who knows what’s causing that. Could be a lot of things. I agree that we should all take precautions. Unfortunately for me, I came from a time where real men just didn’t worry about things like that. Nothing I can do about that now. I just try to be a little smarter about things these days.
Aloha
If the DNA doesn’t evaporate, wait longer. I don’t know why all the Florida shapers can use DNA in summer and you cannot use it in Hawaii - it is hotter and more humid in Florida. Acetone will evaporate faster, of course, it has a higher volatility.
Acetone DOES interfere with epoxy curing, and is a health hazard compared to DNA. IF you use it with epoxies, you are taking chances on a bad cure…and a bad cure is BAD.
The gloves is a good call working with acetone or epoxies. Loehr recommends vinyl gloves, some people develop latex allergies, I use nitrile. Keeping the resins off your skin is only a good thing.
I had a problem with curing involving acetone. For most epoxy repairs, I make a colored filler using cabosil and epoxy resin and fill the damaged area. I then use clear poly to lam, hotcoat, glosscoat over that. I had some very thick pigment which I thinned with about 3 cc of acetone and mixed it into my filler. After it was applied and cured, it never got really hard and took on a yellow/brown tinge. Re-did the filler again with no acetone and no problems happened.
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Maybe it’s the environment here. I live in a humid rain forest. Whenever I wipe down a board with dna before a hotcoat, it does not seem to evaporate. My tape will not stick to the board. If I bust out the acetone–no problems. I just wear chemical gloves.
The alcohol may require more time to evaporate than acetone, you could use a hair dryer or wait abit longer or just wipe down the board with a clean lint-free cloth.
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Hell, until I started making boards, I used to clean my hands with the stuff. 20 plus years of ding repairs etc…Sure, my memory isn’t that good. But who knows what’s causing that. Could be a lot of things. I agree that we should all take precautions. Unfortunately for me, I came from a time where real men just didn’t worry about things like that. Nothing I can do about that now. I just try to be a little smarter about things these days.
Aloha
I hear ya bru, I started doing ding repair on windsurfers and boats when I was 16 and the acetone jug was our friend. My “mentor” however got all sorts of health issues and rashes though. Nitrile gloves have a longer resistance to the Bisphenol-A leaking through than vinyl or rubber.
Puna, if your board stays slick & tape won’t stick, you might be getting amine blush. That happens to me when I use epoxy & its very humid. Give your lam a hard blast with the hose and if you get a whitish flightly foaming spray coming off, that’s what it is. Just spray, spray, spray with water until no more white bubbles, and dry the board with clean towels. Then you’re ready to hotcoat. And if you’re getting it on the lams, you’ll probably get it on the hotcoat too, and you’ll need to spray before sanding…
Howzit blakestah, I think that the difference is punasurf lives in a rain forest and Florida may be hotter and more humid but it’s not a rain forest. My shop had a hygrometer and when it rained a lot it would register over 100% humidity and in those conditions nothing wants to dry. As I write this it has been raining for the last 3 days and we are under a flash flood alert that is to run through tomorrow. The area above Puna gets a lot of rain and is cooler temps than at sea level so I can totally see why he is having problems, I had some at sea level like sand paper to wet to use, resin that took forever to cure even with twice the normal amount of catalyst. Aloha,Kokua