Can I have a board reccomendation?

General Discussion
1

Hi! I haven’t been on here in quite a while, as I was rather busy with Grade 12, but I’m done with school now, and business is rather slow at the moment, so I have a whole lot of time on my hands.

 

In any case, I’d like a board recommendation. I’m currently riding a 7’0" 20 3/4" 2 3/4" rounded pin in basically everything from 1m to 8m waves. It performs wonderfully in 4m-6m waves, and I have successfully surfed it in 8m waves, but I would have liked another 6 inches to a foot of board length in those conditions. But my main problem is that the board is far to hard to maneuver in 1m-3.5m conditions. From 4m-6m it just works beautifully, but anything under 3.5m and the board just doesn’t perform the way I would like it to. I’d like a board that will work good in 1m-3.5m pointbreaks, and that can really be thrown around good. I don’t like to turn off the fins, pivoting, I prefer to turn off the rails. I would also like to slide out the tail if enough force is applied, but it shouldn’t slide out as a rule. I am an intermediate-advanced surfer, and the type of maneuvers that I prefer to do is mainly hard carves, re-entries, laybacks, cutbacks, floaters, etc. I would like to start working on airs soon, but it won’t be as the main focus of my surfing, but rather something that I would like to add to my repertoire. I have managed to launch an air on my 7’0", but needless to say it requires a really powerful wave, and it is rather difficult to attempt to land your first air in 4m barreling surf over a shallow reef.

 

I am 185cm (I’m not sure if that is 6’1" or 6’3")

91kg.

 

What I had in mind was something along the lines of 6’4"-6’6", 20", 2 3/4", but I am not entirely sure what would be a good outline…

2

…man, or you are such a powerful surfer or a damn hot big wave rider or you are G Long himself…or you are not such intermediate advanced surfer like you say or do not know how to measure a wave…8 meters! you say that you normally ride 4 - 6 meters!

a 2-3 meters waves are big waves in most countries; then you have the type of waves (large waves, powerful waves, hollow waves, etc) that add characteristics to that size

-regarding your board, of course that s big board to maneuver in small waves.

You can use a rocket shape in 6 4 x 20 1/2 x 2 3/4 (15 tail) diamond tail to shorten the outline and domed deck to thin out the rails. Quad combo with 4WFS to have arguments and normal flex fins front (bigger) and rigid smaller on rear.

 

3

Well, I am talking face hight here… But still, 8 meters is big, but it isn’t really as big as it sounds… Look here: 3ft roughly equals 1m. Hawaiian size generally halves the hight of the face… 4m = (4 x 3) / 2 = 12ft face = 6ft Hawaiian. 8m is then 12ft hawaiian or 24ft face. Sure, that is big, but I wouldn’t exactly call it massive. The current (unofficial) world record by Garrett Mcnamara is 30m, and the surfers at Dungeons in Cape Town regularly surf 15m waves…

 

Oh, I should have mentioned, I live in South Africa, and I do very much like to surf big heavy waves, but due to a serious lack of budget I have constantly been stuck with needing to choose one board for everything. So while in the past few years, especially the past year, I have been singularly focused on surfing the biggest waves that are available to me, (I don’t have the budget to go down to Cape Town and tackle some real monsters, nor the budget for the 9ft-11ft gun I’m going to need to surf those waves.) I needed to get a board that naturally will underperform in most conditions, and rather work on the big winter days. I also didn’t say I ‘normally’ surf 4m-6m waves, I said the board works best for me in those conditions. While I do regularly surf waves between 4m-6m during the winter, as I am often lucky enough to get the resources a couple of times a week in mid-season, during most of the year the swell fluctuates between 2m-4m. Which is why I end up with the problem that my main board underperforms in those smaller conditions.

 

The board I originally had in mind for my next board would have been a 8’6", but I realized that it would be impractical since I do not have the money to travel to Cape Town, and that it the instances where I have surfed waves between 7m-8m, only happen a
few times a year in Mossel Bay, where I live. I have only been surfing waves in this range for
about a year and a half now, so it just doesn’t happen often enough to
validate getting a bigger board. So that got my mind going about maybe getting a board for the dominant conditions here in Mossel Bay, as I already have a board that works wonderfully in 4m-6m surf.

 

Edit: I will also like to add that I am not neccesarily talking about swell hight, but face hight. While a 9m swell may only give a 2-3m face hight wave at one spot, due to topography it may jack up to 15-20m at another spot. Peurto Escondito is know to take a 3m swell and jack it up to 10m, while a point in a swell shadow may only have a 1m wave.

 

Edit 2:

 

This is a picture of what I would guess as a 5m wave, this is a local spot about 100km from where I live, called Stillbaai. It gets double this size on some days, but I haven’t had the balls to surf it at that size the last time I had the opportunity to surf it that big. The biggest waves that I can get without travelling more than 10km from home is about this size. I have surfed another spot at about 1 3/4 this size, but it doesn’t break as hollow and heavy when big.

4

i personally like to ride a 5"1’ swallow fish pin tail thats about 4 x 31 they work great in your hollow big wave conditions and are perfect for learning huge airs. i hope this helps. newbie to swaylocks so the pros can jump in at any time for additional help. ive only been surfing for 11 years so dont listen to me.

5

I think you’re about right with your dimensions. I’d probably go with a 6’6x20 round tail, wide point at center. That’s what I ride in surf from the 2m range, up to a couple feet overhead, and I’ve yet to max out the size limit on that board. But once it starts approaching DOH I pick up a 7’0. Keep in mind I’m much older than you, and the waves I ride at that size are thumping beachbreaks.

6

Damn, DOH+ on a beachbreak is madness! I mainly surf points and reefs, we don’t really have many beachbreaks that work on overhead conditions over here. Most of them max out at head high. We do have a couple of sand points however that have the once for ounce power of beachbreaks, but that can handle basically any size. One particular spot, which sadly doesn’t break very often due to the necessary swell direction, can handle any size what so ever (given the oh so rare South East-East swells, that rarely if ever go beyond 3m, and then almost never comes with an offshore.) and is more powerful than New Pier and Cave Rock according to some of the Durban surfers I’ve surfed it with. Cave Rock, for those who do not know, is considered one of the heaviest surf spots in South Africa, and it is often compared to The Box in Western Australia.

 

BTW, How old is much older? In my mind you shouldn’t use the word ‘I’ and ‘old’ in the same sentance before you reach 60. If you are under 60 years old, please stop calling yourself old. Growing up with my grandparents has taught me one very important thing, people think they are old roughly 2 decades before they reach the age they think of themselves in there head. My grandfather is 81, and in spite of a body that just doesn’t want to work with him any more, he gets more done than the average 30 something guy, out of pure hard headed determination. So, I always say that you are only as old as you think you are.

7

…hello, that 5m wave you posted is what normally is called a 2.5 - 3 meters or OH and a half or a bit more.

You are there in that wave in the flat face not on the wave, the wave is smaller that what s looks

Here those waves are in beachbreaks, hollow ones and nobody have semi guns or bigger boards; normally most surfers ride those waves with a range between 5 10 - 6 6; depends on the surfers.

I suggested a board for a quiver, to perform ok on point breaks that have some windy conditions like the picture.

 

8

For the record, I’m looking at 50 coming up. My age is relevant in this discussion because it influences my board design and choice on any given day. Most of the guys my age stopped surfing bigger days a long time ago, and most of the younger ones ride boards much smaller than I chose to ride… let’s face it… I’m well past my prime. But I still hope to be as productive as your grandfather at his age. At least that’s the plan.

9

Your 6.1, my buddy is about your height and is on 5.9 to 6.0’s standard performace short boards in up to head and a half high waves. its up to you how much float you think you need.

10

2.5-3m? That hardly makes any sense. I know that the ceiling of my room is exactly 3m, and that wave is WAY higher than our ceilings. If I assume the same position as that guy, my ceiling is about 1.5 my standing hight. That waves seems close to 2.5-3 times the hight of the surfer in his current stance… So I hardly see how that wave could be judged as 3m, unless the whole of the rest of the world are midgets. Remember, Jordy Smith from SA is 1.92m (6’3"), and he is not all exceptional at all for a South African. Our old Rugby captain Victor Matfield is 6’7", and thus over 2m tall. We are a massive breed of people. But even if most surfers from where you’re from never top 1.7m, thus lets say 1.5 crouching slightly, how is a wave that is nearly 3 times the surfer’s hight 2.5-3m?

I also never really understood the whole Overhead-Double Overhead thing. I kind of expected this entire thread to spiral into a wave size discussion the moment I decided to post a anything related to wave size. (That pretty much happened to me last time I asked for board advice here…) I thought I was avoiding it by posting it in meters, but I guess not. If I had to post Hawaiian size, that would have been even more of a f-up. I mean, first I watch vids of the 2012 (or was it 2011, guess it doesn’t really matter) Sunset Triple Crown event, with multiple different videos calling it 10 to 12ft hawaiian, while I was seeing 6-8ft waves, with like one possible 9ft bomb… Then on another vid guys all end up calling it 6-8ft and it looks more like 12ft to me. Wave size arguments have always baffled me. Also, for Double overhead, why don’t we keep it simple and call a wave that is roughly double the hight of the surfer if he was standing straight up, and call that double overhead, or double head high if you really want to be totally specific about it.

 

As for board sizes under 6’4", the ones I’ve tried really don’t feel all that good underfoot. They catch waves easy enough, and when going in a straight line they feel fine, but the moment I want to put them on rail it just seems like they don’t want to. It feels like they would rather pivot around than go on rail. The reason I wanted a bigger board for big bigger waves was not so much catching the wave, I am more than fit enough to paddle against the current and catch waves even on a small board in waves twice the size I pictured, but it just feels like the board cannot handle the speed it is going at. I used to ride a 6’5" that was too narrow and thin for me, as I went through a massive growth spurt when I got it, and I surfed it in pretty big waves, but I felt so limited on it because I just had to focus on preventing the board from spinning out, even with massive fins on it, that I couldn’t really put some real power into it and rip the wave up. It is also scary to get to the bottom of a big wave, and not be able to do a powerful bottom turn without spinning out. On the bigger board I don’t have to worry about that at all, and I can go full on and really put my weight into it without needing to concern myself with the board spinning out or losing control. In smaller waves though I have the opposite problem, I cannot put my full weight into a turn because if I turn to fast the board just won’t follow me. Float isn’t to much of a concern for me. I have more than enough skill and have done more than enough bodysurfing to be able to catch waves on a small board. I am more worried about on-the-wave performance.

11

Asking for board advice on a forum is much like asking ‘who should I marry’…opinions may vary.

Based on your feedback, however, especially “It feels like they would rather pivot around than go on rail”, sounds like a drivy rocker with a bit forward fin positioning may be what you’re looking for.  Suggest talking to a quality local shaper to discuss your needs and his solution, maybe even talk to a couple.

And regarding wave height call, listened to a couple of friends verbally duke it out after our session several decades ago, pretty much capturing the essence of the core argument.

First surfer was calling it 12-14 feet.

Second surfer, freshly returned from the North Shore, was calling it 6-8 feet, stating with his absolute newfound conviction ‘you gotta measure it from the back.’

First surfer replied 'Why?  I ride the fronts."

 

 

 

 

12

Interesting thread and your perspective is fresh.

…not really interested in discussing the wave height stuff because that is abstract because there is no accepted agreement on how to universally measure waves.

That being said, and more important, is body structure: meaning height and build.

Tall lanky or even powerfully built surfers surf differently than shorter, more compact surfers who experience a lowered center of gravity given a board of the same length/size.

The suggestion of incorporating a drivier rocker is a good idea for your being a taller surfer. You mentioned a lot of South Africans are taller compared to the norm in other countries, and I’m not surprised when you consider that the Dutch are the tallest people on the planet on average. Four years ago the Dutch raised door frame codes to 7’6".5" or 90-1/2".

This is a considerable difference from the United States at 80" (6’8").  Dutch men and women are getting taller each year. And yes, a lot of South africans have Dutch heritage, geneology.

You may want to talk with your shaper about reducing center rockerline but add VEE into the bottom.  This will provide maneuverability in smaller waves, AND the ability to drive the board hard off the bottom onto the rail.

How much vee?

You may want to try between 1/2" to 3/4" which would measure HALF of that when running a straight edge across the bottom of both vee planes.as though the straight edge were a flat bottom board.

How you approach the vee is optional. You can experiment with advancing the vee, a static vee or progressive vee plane.

Advancing the vee is shaping more vee depth forward of the tail than lessening the vee as you move toward the tailblock. even to flat our slightly concaved at the tailblock (spiral vee).

You can have a more ‘static’ vee plane that stays the same depth for an extended distance before transtioning further forward on the board.

You can have a progressive vee plane which the depth is greatest at the tail and progressively decreases as you move it forward. This type of vee is esp. good for surfers that surf with tighter stances and prefer loose loopy type turns.

Vee planes aid your desire to surf “on rail”,.  With deeper vee planes,  fins with higher area (fuller) tips go particularly well for laying the board over and driving on rail. The vee and fins work well for power surfers, and your fin positioning can be further forward than what other bottom configurations may dictate.

If properly designed, you could easily ride a 6’8"x20"x2-5/8"+/- diamond or swallow…(which I feel would be optimum over the widely accepted curvier round pin)  … in a wide variety of conditions with plenty of maneuverability and still have enough rail length for sizeable surf. Guys riding boards I do like this can turn them from the middle of the board, and they can punch them with their back foot over the side fins and go fully vertical.

Everyone has their own preference, this is just a suggestion to throw into the hat, that I’ve done a lot of experiementing with over the past 5 years.

Hope it helps.

13

Wow, now that is the kind of comment I like. I love it when people go into great detail. (Which is one of the reasons why I like this forum, even though I doubt that I will shape a board in the near future.)

 

I really like your suggestion for the vee, because that also helps me add more thickness without doming the deck too much or getting fat rails. I will welcome a change from a rounded pin, and the diamond tail really attracts me. Since I do not need this particular board to work in large surf, as I already have a board for that, I think I can get away with a 6’4". My stance is fairly wide, around 0.8m from heel to heel.

 

Also, please explain what you mean by a ‘drivey’ rocker?

 

When it comes to the hight of the Afrikaner, we have it in a serious wammy. Not only are we probably 50%+ Dutch, we also have genes from all the biggest people in Europe, especially German and French blood. We also have a mix match between several African native races, and these guys can get pretty big, especially the Zulu’s. On top of that we have blood from several different island races, who might not be all that tall in some cases, but who come with some crazy muscular and bone structure. Now, to top it all off, all the Earopeans that came down here would have been your biggest guys, as these where hard bred sailours who had to be in real good physical condition to be able to survive the trip down here.

14

drivy rocker = straighter overall rocker.  The key is maintaining enough rocker for the obvious steep waves you’re surfing, while straightening out the water flow through the bottom of the board to provide the straighter leverage tall,  front foot carving down the line power surfers crave (am one myself, 6’3 x 185#),  obtained by proper use of concaves. 

Another problem tall surfers can run into is with their increased foot size and extra height they put much more leverage into their turns then a shorter surfer, and can easily over power a board that is too narrow, too thin, and too foiled out at the rails.

A design that works well for tall down the line power surfers is moderate continual rocker, light single to double concave, fin cluster opened up a bit, plenty of sufficient volume in the chest to knee box, and medium full rails.  If surfing particularly steep waves, a moderate increase in rail rocker to set the rails in steep drops can be offset with a slight increase in the double concaves. 

DT’s are fun, ride them myself in my shorter mid-lengths.  RP’s shorten up the rail line more then any other tail, so work great for down the line power surfers, supports forward cockpit control, however, lack the punch off the bottom and top that the DT offers.

The most important aspect to learning about surfboards is starting with a baseline.  Understand what you’re riding, and why you order or make your next ride.  Track the changes, understand what impact the changes had.  Too many surfers order boards with absolutely no connection to their previous rides, just all over the map.  They have no idea why a ‘magic board’ is magic.  Odds were, it was magic because of rocker more then any other single tangible.

So learn to measure rocker, it is the horsepower inside of a good board, the anchor on a bad one.  Learn fin positioning, concave set-ups, rail foils, etc.

Whether you move on to build boards, or not, once you understand how boards work, and what your requirements are, your surfing will progress equally with your ability to put the right ride under your feet.

 

15

I could barely read through this whole post..way too much information about wave height and Zulu warriors etc.....WTF is going on here.

Just listen to Dead Shaper...period.

 

16

Haha… Zulu warriors…

 

Yea, I think DEADSHAPER has hit the nail on the head there…

 

I also think a diamond tail would be a good transition from a rounded pin.

 

As for rocker, getting the right amount of rocker at the right places is going to be trickey… If the board was meant for one wave type only, it would be easier, but since I need it to work in fatter waves as well as smaller, hollow waves with lots of critical sections, getting the right balance between drive and the prevention of rail-digging will be quite the challenge. I think the vee option will very much solve thie problem… My logic tells me that vee will help create a flatter rocker through the midline while allowing more rocker on the rails… I would also imagine this will give space to make the board a whole lot thicker without doming the deck to much, which is something I rather dislike, and without making the rails to thick.

 

Another question, is there a way that I can prevent my nose from sinking into the water when dropping down a critical section, other than nose rocker. I was thinking increased thickness in the front 1/3rd of the board, more pronounced vee, fuller rails on the front 1/3rd of the board, and/or increased width in the front 1/3rd of the board. Or, possibly a combination of these in smaller amounts so that none of these design elements become overwhelming on the board and affect performance negetavely. Please tell my where I’m thinking right and where my logic isn’t all that logical… I’m just theorising here.

17

get the red one.

…ambrose…