Carbon fiber surfboards!

General Discussion
21

Tbones,

I have handled some of those 1920’s clubs like my Grandfather was using and they were very rigid, with nothing like the flex which a modern club has. I know that wood is able to flex, but haven’t seen any flexible wooden golf clubs. What I was saying was not so much about wood, but rather against the idea that equipment (In this case golfing equipment) makes no difference. Equipment does make a difference, and in the case of golf, design improvements have led to much longer drives. This is a fact.

Regards, Roy

22

Greg,

I have a carbon fibre/epoxy fin panel, and I have noticed that it becomes very flexible and loses resilience and stiffness when it heats up in the sun. I am wondering if it is the new epoxy I am using, or whether it is something to do with the carbon itself. I have never experienced this before with a fin panel. Do you know anything about this?

Regards, Roy

23

Spit, you saw a board built by Mike Halun. He was associated with Hydro epic and went his own way.

The boards are made with carbon fiber and an aluminum honeycomb “stringer”, comes with a “suspension system” for flex, choice of fin systems, and can be made with either a white or black deck.

I have a 3rd generation board, no suspension, future fins, all black. I have no complaints in under 6’ (face) waves. I’m still testing out different fins, so the time spent has been fun and I’m learning the different “quirks” of the board.

The price tag is a bit on the steep side (around $800), but if one factors in the technology, it is pretty reasonable. Also, if you are a weekend warrior or a part time surfer AND 1 board will do it for you, it may be a wise investment.

24

“I’ve always wanted to do that but have the top and bottom connected with tiny wires, then pressurise it …”

Bert,

Sounds interesting. The Uli is an inflatable, but I haven’t seen the internal structure. What would the wires attach to? Seems like it could be a series of nylon threads that could collapse without much bulk yet still attach to the skin with out some elaborate framework. Like a mat, but needs a deck you could stomp on without having it buckle.

The Bisect just looks as though all their eggs are in one basket…that single joint in the middle…too much force with only one place to absorb the shock.

Maybe a portable that was more like a jigsaw puzzle. Many pieces with irregular joints to spread the load…also makes for a smaller board bag. Hey, each piece could be inflatable, with velcro junctions and a hard plate to provide deck stiffness.

25

Roy,

I’m not going to argue with you about golfclubs on a boardbuilding forum. Suffice it to say that carbon has much higher flexion before catastrophic failure than wood and at the same time be made much stiffer given same diameters. Hence, a board made with carbon fiber lamination techniques would flex and at the same time recover faster than wood or glass.

My statement was that I thought it would be interesting to ride these boards and see if these flex characteristics made the board ride appreciably different, i.e. tend to slingshot out of turns and therefor maintain speed better.

Terry

26

spitboy, my shaper got a board glassed with carbon fiber recently. He said it came out fairly light but hasn’t gotten a lot of feedback yet from the owner.

It shouldn’t be a problem getting any board you want glassed with graphite. Just know that you will have to get it glassed with epoxy, as carbon fiber doesn’t work well with poly resin. Also know that carbon fiber costs 3-4 times what E-glass does per yard, so also be prepared to pay a premium for that carbon glass job. Carbon fiber is extrememly stiff but is susceptible to pressure dings and deck denting. Probably best to put a fiberglass patch either under or over the deck cloth to give some dent resistance. Good thing is you could probably get away with one layer of 4oz. carbon on top and bottom with a deck patch of fiberglass and have an acceptable strength board.

27

Yes Tbones,

Both materials can obviously be used to make a functional flexible board. The English longbow is another example of a functional flexible timber tool. I have a timber compound bow which is easily as powerful as any composite bow. Do you plan to build any carbon fibre flexible boards? I notice that the most functional flexy board in a quiver is one which actually exists!

Regards, Roy

28

sorry - but ive got to correct you here - the "english " longbow was a welsh invention and relied upon using wood from the inside and outside of the tree to change the flex characteristics. By the way - there is a cornish co. making carbon fibre boards - www.tombstonesurf.com - the surf very differently - I owned one and it was the snappiest, lioghtest and toughest thing ever - until one day I left it in a hot car and the whole thing bulged - not to be surfed again!

29

Hello Silverback,

Yes I have read of the mighty Longbow of Gwent. My laminated timber compound bow can drive an arrow clean through a car door!

Roy

30

I hate to disagree with you roy, but for a bow of any competitive standard (in particular olympic class and not the compound bows) the use of carbon and other exotic materials are use in addition to wood to make it recover faster for higher arrow speeds. Sometimes the wood is dropped altogether. Wood also has some stability issues, it sometimes twists rendering the limbs useless, can have problems in rain if they’re not perfectly sealed and can twist ‘in the shot’ as well. None of this matters much in the compound bows due to the technology, the limb is very stiff and barely moves during the shot. Just for the record, I think compund bows are cheating. :wink:

That said, I don’t think that carbon fiber or very quick recovering materials are needed for flex in a surfboard. The quick snap of carbon may be too quick to be useful in a surfboard. I’ve had snowboard with carbon in the past and see no need for it.

regards,

Håvard

31

hello , i came into the thread too late but i have made two all carbon boards, one with epoxy and the other with poly , both turned out ok ,they don/t surf much different to normal boards,the extra effort to make them out of carbon probably was/nt worth it really but as an axcuse to try something different it was.

32

Do you still shape a foam blank then put the carbon fibe on the say way you put fiberglass on but with epoxy?

33

t bones … unless you can give us some data im gonna argue that one all the way…

no way carbon will flex as far as wood without failing…

if that was the case i would use carbon…

what is the molecular make up of wood ???

i think youll find a substanstial amount of carbon in there…

plus a few other ingredients to soften the ride…

not a week passes where im not experimenting with something new …

just today i set a up a test vac , for the purpose of trying several new fabrics,some celulose pressed fabrics,all in combination sandwich formations…

almost 20 combinations of various potential construction methods…

the point im trying to make , in my own experiments ive seen panels fail , purely coz the carbon was the weak link…

ill take some pics tommorow of a decent timber sandwich lay up bent to the extreme …

you will change your mind…

i once jumped on a carbon board and the the carbon sheared right off at the nose , the board didnt snap , but the rail each side of the nose split about 5" down each rail,so it looked like a fish opening its mouth, the deck and bottom spliting appart at the nose…

it transfers energy to well , in a very direct manner…

im not saying carbon has no merit, its amazing stuff …

but timber will do the same job , and when things get extreme it softens and spreads the load so failure isnt as critical…

if wood fails before carbon , then theyre doing something wrong…

its possible to force resin into timber under extreme heat and pressure…

then tell me which is better ???

ill put what i do against any test…

regards

BERT

34

to spitboy, the 2 boards i made were laminated the same as normal one was a fish the blank was a uk produced homeblown blank and the resin was poly, the other was a short board with a clark ultralight and epoxy resin ,both boards are over a year old and have stood up well, the short board probably being the toughest, i will try and post some pics.

39

Bert,

I was speeking of golfclubs when I made the flex comparisons… Comparing wooden golfclub shafts and wood laminations on a surfboard is like comparing apples and oranges. I saw the pics of you standing on that board that was placed bottom up on the ground and the pics were very impressive.

I’m no expert on surfboard construction. I would value your opinion very highly as it petained to surfboards with wood sandwich construction(if thats even the proper term). My whole arguement was that carbon can be made more resilient to catastrophic failure than wood IN A GOLF CLUB SHAFT. In a board that may be a hinderance to performance and breaking strength. Like I said you are the expert in this area.

It is very possible that carbon boards will flex too fast and therefor not lead to a better performing board.

Roy, Wooden bows are not even close to the efficiency of carbon or even glass limbs on a bow. I have built many bows out of wood. While I love the look and romance of a wooden bow, when it comes to performance, carbon or glass is hands down the performance leader. Ask any industry executive form PSE, Hoyt, Matthews, Jennings, or Bowtech. The list goes on and on. I Have competed in archery competitions for a long time. There are seperate classes for traditional archery equipment(wooden recurves and longbows) because the two are so poorly matched.

Bert, Here again I am not trying to compare these materials across different applications. Bows and boards are different animals. Didnt mean to get your hackles up.

Terry

40

thats quite interesting , how carbon stands up so well in different applications…

are there any sailors here???

sailboats in particular…

i heard a sailor say once"nothing compares to sailing a wooden boat…"

has anyone got any experience there…???

my personal feel with carbon is it transfers energy so well that it becomes a hard ride…

theres also a timing thing on the recoil…

i do beleive that construction technique has alot to do with it …

if you used to same methods of autoclaving,vac bagging,pressure infusion,and heat intrusion resin transfer…

then wood isnt the same wood in the old fashioned sense…

i think i see wood in a different way…

regards

BERT