I've sailed a marui plywood hull ("Buccaneer" a Spencer 78') from the Easter Island to Long Beach via the Galapagos Islands and Mexico. I've rebuilt two aluminum 12 Meters (Defender & Eagle) and a Mull 83' (Sorcery)and raced each of them (well not Eagle she was a dog). I've sailed un-cored FRP lay ups in races to mainland Mexico and I've sailed high tech cored carbon fiber boats to Hawaii. Each has their positives and negatives. You just need to understand how they work, where you can push and what the limits are. When shit breaks at those scales you really don't want to be the cause. I've had all these opportunities because owners trusted me to know what those limits are. The fun part is pushing right to the edge and staying there for as long as possible.
Ha, you guys are funny, comparing wood and carbon… And all this talk about “flex” – don’t confuse “flex” with “bendy”.
As far as the write-up on the 2-piece carbon longboard goes, it’s so full of hype and errors that I just can’t take it seriously. The worst being…“10 times stronger than fiberglass”. I’d love to get my hands on some carbon that’s 10 times stronger than fiberglass by weight. Actually, so would NASA and a few others. Just 'cause surfers are uneducated about their equipment doesn’t make it right to make such outrageous claims.
I think Tom hit it right on the head there. Knowing the limits of your materials in different applications is key. Wood is mother nature’s wonder material. Ever see a tree bend in a huge storm? The ability of the wood trunk to be held in compression and tension simultaneously and then return to its original form is paramount. We haven’t been able to mimic these material properties to date.
That being said… the use of wood in applications such as golf clubs, bows, baseball bats, tennis rackets, skis etc… and many other applications is limited. Wood can vary in density and strength only by varying species.
As the competiveness of sports increases, the demand for the use of advanced materials increases. The substitution of carbon fiber composites in many of these applications is good. You get lighter equipment (good for racket speed, club head speed ect, not so good for the sholders), stiffness and supered recoil/bounceback properties (Thus transferring a higher percentage speed and power in your club, racket, bow to the object it is making contact with).
These are all great advantages for many different applications. How that translates to surfing I think really depends on the surfer. A carbon fiber layup on a board will give you light weight, high strength, and a stiffer ride. I find that I like the light weight board. A carbon fiber board for me improves the snap in my cutbacks (Less energy is wasted in the actual bending of the board and more is transferred to displacing the water in the turn giving it a snappy feel). But you loose that feel, the connection with the board. I don’t like that. Nothing can replace the warmth or smoothness that a foam or wooden board has with your feet and water.
I guess like I said before, it all depends on what you are looking for in your ride. Every material has its place. There are pros and cons to everything, and I like that everyone here discusses these differnces. There is always something to learn by listening to other people’s experience and expertise, thats why I come to swaylocks. I would encourage all here to keep on trying new materials, fabrication techniques… anything that pushes the edge. Its pushing the edge of innovation I think that keeps the fire in our stoke for this sport and craft going.
I know we should be talking about surfboards, but on closer inspection I notice that the limbs on my ‘wooden’ compound bow are laminated timber and some kind of alloy. I would like to get a longbow,I have already removed the sights from my compound bow, but I find it slow to load, and I would prefer a longer draw, (back to the ear) as the shorter drawlength feels cramped.
yeah the board i saw had Halun on it. it was black with like orange strips coming up from the tail half way up the board. its awsome if anyboad has a pic of ir post it.
bike frame mfgs. have already spent millions of dollars in their research of carbon fiber which surfboard deaign could benefit from,as they have much more to gain from their investment financially. carbon frames must have the fibers applied in specific direction on the frame to provide longitudinal flex so the ride is bearable yet stiff enough not to flex and twist when the athelete is standing and pedaling on an uphill climb. Therefore the direction of the carbon fibers is applied differently at different points on the bike frame. example:where the crank bearing is held in place versus the seat stays or top tube which must flex for comfort. a road bikes front fork (which most are made of carbon nowdays)is a good study paralleling surfboard design. the fork must have a measured amount of flex,yet have NO side deflection or twisting. the Star carbon fork on my Colnago bicycle sells for over $800 alone and i’ve had it past 45mph with all confidance in it. a carbon surfboard costing over $1000 would be worth the money IF this same research is applied, which at this point in developement sounds as if it isn’t.
Fiber allignment is common to sails, hulls and spars in boat construction. The advantage that bike manufacturers have is economies of scale. They will make so many X size frames and so many X+1" and so on that the fiber allignment is repeatable and economically automatable. But, in surfboard construction economically automatable=Pop Out. There are systems currently available, that could be utilized to custom fiber allign over hand crafted cores. But, the initial investment would require market domination inorder to be recouped. Otherwise you have a very labor intensive layup.
On the carbon debate I have built a few the last one had a kevlar deck and carbon bottom It went ok
But my preference is for all kevlar it seems to have a feel that is somewhere between glass and carbon but with way more durability
I had two all kevlars on our sailing trip round the world they were surfed a lot over six years and spent all there time being carted around in a dinghy which has got to be one of the worst ways to treat a surfboard
At the end of the trip they are both still in good condition and will most likely be around still years after my son now 8 years has finished riding them
I have allways found that carbon tends to float on the resin more than kevlar and is therefor more likely to suffer delamination
The obvious answer to this is to vac bag any lamination
If you use Kevlar DO NOT lap the rails just put a very light glass over them and save yourself the drama of trying to sand kevlar
I allways just butt the kevlar together and have never broken a kevlar board yet.which is more than I can say about some of my all glass and all carbon boards
On the yacht I built twin rudders like the open sixtys both are spade rudders (meaning that they only have a shaft and no skeg support )
they have square section shafts and the blades are H100 foam all up weight for rudder and shaft is 7 kgs They have now done over 50,000 nautical miles with no signs of any problems
They do bend when sailing I would guess that they flex up to about 2 to 3 inches side to side
Thats a lot of cyclic flexing in 50,000nm The only damage they have suffered is the odd dent in the leading edge when they have hit logs etc
I found out the hard way about kevlar breaking down in sunlight, I built a balsa 7’5" and glassed it with kevlar which was a major mission. I used a sharp cabinet scraper instead of sanding, but after a year and a half the kevlar was like toilet paper, you could put your thumbnail through it easily. It wasn’t the epoxy breaking down because I did a glass one at the same time and it was ok. I suppose you guys know all about kevlar and sunlight, but I thought I would just mention it because I saw a new Mc Tavish which had a kevlar glass job with clear resin . . obviously a mistake
I’d just like to say that those are really nice looking boards. I also would like to offer my congratulations for trying something new and pulling it off. Looks like you did a fantastic job!
I am supprized Roy, i have never had a problem with sunlight and kevlar
The oldest one I have is now eight years old and has never had a cover
and shows no sign of what you are saying
I however take care not to leave any of my boards in the sun regardless of glass type but this one has spent periods in the back of a van etc
There does seem to be different grades of kevlar as some cloth is a much darker yellow than others after time (these are off cuts that i still have so have no resin on them )
I would be interested to hear if any one else has this problem
A lot of the Whitbread 60s were kevlar and had vast areas left unpainted in there anal efforts to reduce weight
There is also a kevlar repair to the bow prod on my boat which I did in the Red Sea which was back in early 1999 I never did get round to painting it and it still seems just as strong as the day it was done
Hi Mike, the board was left in the sun more or less all the time, but I was told by Tom Smithers in Taranaki that Kevlar cloth definitely breaks down in sunlight, as it was a well known problem with kevlar windsurfer sails which he said are unusable after 18 months hard use. I assumed that he was right. I know that epoxy can break down in sunlight but I have epoxy boards permanently stored on roofracks (no cover) and there’s no detactable problem. The kevlar laminate had the same resin but just turned to smoosh. It was really tough when I made it too.
Maybe that hole in the ozone layer is bigger than we think down here,my boards and boat have spent more time either at the equator or in the northern hemisphere
We have been here in NZ now for just over a year and a half maybe I should go and check that prod again!
Hay this weather suxs its been onshore up here for way too long has there been any swell down on your coast?
Hi Mike, no we’ve got zilch swell and it has been flat for maybe five weeks or so apart from one little wind swell from a NW front which lasted about 6 hours and I missed it. Plus the cold weather has been slowing down my new epoxy to the point where it takes 4 or 5 days to go off properly. The west coast must be providing you with the occasional grovel when the swell drops enough? Roll on summer.
I’ve sailed a small wooden boat that was built like the old viking boats. Lots of twist. Real scary at first, but for some reason it twists and cuts through the waves in a very weird but efficent maner. There is absolutly nothing like it. The lifespan of these boats are limited, but if you want a small, open wooden boat to handle large waves this is the way to go.
I’ve sailed a small wooden boat that was built like the old viking boats. Lots of twist. Real scary at first, but for some reason it twists and cuts through the waves in a very weird but efficent maner. There is absolutly nothing like it. The lifespan of these boats are limited, but if you want a small, open wooden boat to handle large waves this is the way to go.
regards,
Håvard
Hmmm, sounds interesting Haavard, what was the boat called, I would like to see some pictures. -Carl