So after doing a lot of research and looking into carbon fibre and also studying it at University, why is that the guys who make it, do it hollow and have expensive molds? Can someone explain this to me.
The reason is cause I made a board over the summer that was shaped by Pete Anderson (whangamata, NZ) and glassed it myself with carbon fibre and epoxy resin. The only thing I regret is not vacuum bagging it, which is what I’ll do next time and bake it. Its already bout 2/3 weight of standard EPS/epoxy board but I think I can get it lighter. But by doing a custom gave me the flexibility of choosing my shape and how thick the glass job should be.
It surfs beautifully.
So just wondering why the pros don’t do this? There’s even a way to do fully custom hollow boards, which will leave you with a blank to use for standard board too, but I wont tell you bout that.
Any response would be appreciated as looking into this for a 4th year project.
The boards that some companies make are hollow, but they also do utilize sandwich construction, using a high density foam sandwiched under the deck and maybe the bottom too. You’ll see pros mess around with cf boards, but they want what they know, and what they know and are comfortable with is a standard PU/fiberglass board.
There are plenty of ways to make custom hollow boards using cf and/or kevlar composites that plenty of people know about and have done… could be a good 4th year project right there. The surfboard industry is cost driven… and carbon fiber cloth is many times more expensive. And as far as why do they us expensive molds to mass produce, well its cheap in the big picture to do that. Using a shaped blank as a mold is significantly more expensive, but very doable.
Ok so its more expensive at the moment but its not over a $100/m and guessing since most people would get it wholesale or cheaper you’re looking at under $50 bucks and then you can still go cheaper if you know who to ask. But thats still pricy compared to $6 for standard glass.
But with the molds thing don’t most people prefer a custom?? Wouldn’t mass producing identical boards limit the buyers to a small amount so therefore you’d make less??
The reason you see hollow carbon fiber boards is because when you put CF over foam, the boards usually come out too stiff. Fiberglass over foam is still the cheapest, quickest, most proven method of making surfboards. Carbon fiber is stiffer, way more expensive, and absorbs heat from the sun. Try making it from the parking lot to the water without melting your wax off in tropical conditions with a black board.
I’ve built and surfed hundreds of carbon fiber boards - mostly hollow ones - and I’m back to surfing mostly PU/PE again. If it ain’t broke, why fix it?
Not to say you can’t build boards from carbon fiber… or any of a multitude of alternative materials. Have you seen Texilium? That’s fiberglass, woven with aluminum. That’s cool. You can also get stainless steel fiber, Arimide, Kevlar, bamboo, hemp, and probably even horsehair.
In a “production” environment, with available trained manpower, it’s just easier and more cost effective to use traditional materials and techniques. In a market where most are struggling, and many aren’t surviving, going outside the box… especially to a place where most know the pitfalls (and they’re many)… is not a viable option.
As a hobbyist board builder without time and money pressure, you can afford to experiment. Knock yourself out. Post pics.
Thanks for that Kendall. I know the whole if it aint broke then why fix it motto and agree, its just that I need a fourth yr research project for uni so just looking into an option that would be really interesting. Maybe I could look into the other fibres out there.
The only reason why I would look into it is because of the whole green issue, which although Im a bit skeptical on the whole topic, (chemistry opens your eyes to a whole lot more then greenhouse effect) theres definitely a market out there. But if no-one thinks its worth it then I’ll probably do something like high temp superconductors.
You say you’ve surfed hundreds of them, could you elaborate a bit and tell me what you thought worked better. ie were they hollow carbon boards or standard layup carbon ie with the blank.
Also I was wondering what do people think about the flex characteristics of carbon fibre boards. I know some say they’re too stiff but you can alter the direction of the cloth and change the flex completely. There’s also hundreds of types of cloth all with their own flex property.
hi piripi : i havent rode any carbon fiber boards.. i actually was being a smart ass to kendall ... sorry to all, doesnt seem so funny to me now... anyway i ve surfed for 35 yrs. and ride a long board now.. i think for longboards the stiffer the better... when you push on a long board you want it to respond... as for short boards yea it would be good to adjust your flex.. hollow waves would be better to flex in and mushy waves stiff would be better, so the board wouldnt "push".... just my experience... i have china pop outs {shhh!} and custom shaped eps epoxy boards... once again for long boarding its really hard to say which is better... thanks
If it is a research project maybe get samples of a bunch of different materials and do some 3-pt bend test, tensile tests and compressive test, though most of the data is prob already out there, maybe not for horsehair though. Although these tests arent tooo easy with composites (compared to metals), it could really make a good uni research project. Then figure out some way of factoring cost into your materials choice and then make the board with that material. That is exactly the kinda stuff the professors want to see.
greenest material in my book is bamboo, very sustainable plant. it also absorbs epoxy really well to make a good “natural” composite. You can do a layup with bamboo veneer just as any other composite to change flex/stiffness characteristics.
I’ve seen Kevlar boards, and they are cool. I like the greenish sort of hue that they give over a foam blank.
There is a glasser in Cocoa that does them, and says that he prefers to work with Carbon or Kevlar.
His shop uses AST resin http://www.astsurf.com/, which, when used with normal glass and EPS foam, it extremely tough. They regularly body slam the boards on the asphalt, then procede to jump on them as a demo and then take them out in the water.
I would say that the ultimate “board of a lifetime” would be a Kevlar/AST XTR or other closed cell foam board.
