Hello,
I have a merrick A6 6’4’’ thruster
I am not getting the speed I need to make it through sections. (i know its my fault, not the board)
SO I am thinking about adding in more fcs fin plugs to make it essentially a 5 fin system.
Too broke right now to buy a new board. So I want to turn my three fin into four.
Thoughts?
Luke
Why not set it up as an “edge” AND “McKee.” Then report back!
Yes you need to do the install per the manufacturer’s specs, including the extra patch of cloth, or the plug will likely fail. Don’t worry too much about the little hump the patch will create. It feels like a mountain when you run your hand over it, but it’s really only something like .007" thick. With the hotcoat, maybe 1mm? Your fins themselves create much more drag. Sand the area down to the weave first, then put a 6oz patch down nice and tight. Fair out the edges of the patch, hotocat, then install the plugs.
Go for it.
Set the fins up “edge” style. Make 'em about 1" +/- 1/8" apart - fore/aft, and try some other boxes you can get some movement out of.
I’m not sure that will help you make it through sections, but it will make the board feel different, and add some versatility. Check the Mckee site for fin positioning.
Do you know how to accelerate a board? That would be the key. The art of putting pressure on and taking it off when turning (I think others call it pumping). Do that on the turns (bottom and top) to get the most out of them, and the board will go faster. Get low and down a the bottom, then put all your weight into the turn while pushing up with your legs. Once you are coming out of the turn your body should be completely weightless, not putting any pressure on the board. Then as you start to naturally fall back onto the board you should begin the next turn. Up then down, up then down. You can get going unbelievably fast once you get that down.
For sections, sometimes you just need to get a little further down on to the flat then make a really hard bottom turn to scoot around the section. If you know you didn’t get all the way, be ready to make a quick downward turn to setup another hard bottom turn. If that doesn’t get you around, you probably aren’t going to get in front.
Some guys will do a big floater to get up on top the curl then use the momentum of falling back into the wave to pull off a really hard bottom turn and get into the pocket. I only do that if the wave isn’t too big for me to handle dropping back into it to pull off the bottom turn.
If you just set an edge and try to run, you need a different kind of board.
do you currently have the FCS plugs or fusions? where are the side boxes located? are you going to do this yourself?
DO IT. i would advise against the McKee setup tho. i didn't like it on my HPSB. everybody is different tho...
i suggest you put the trailing edge of the rear fins 1 1/8" off the rail toed in 1/8" over a 4 1/2" run. as far as placement from the tail, that depends on where your front boxes are.....
there's alot more that goes into a design like a quad or a thruster that you might not realize. Rocker, bottom contour, outline, etc, play a part in making a concept like a quad or thruster function properly. If I'm not mistaken, the A6 model has a deep single concave, even through the tail. Quads seem to work best for me with a double concave, vee, or a mixture of both, because water is being directed more towards the rail/fins than the stringer line as is the case for your A6 due to the single concave. If you're gonna go ahead and convert it, definately go with a McKee style set up, rather than an edge setup. The only reason that I say this is cause I think that it is gonna be really hard to transition rail to rail with an edge setup and a single concave in the tail. this also depends on how wide your tail is too! Also, a mckee setup might work better for the A6 cause the water would channel more towards your back fins than an edge+single concave set up would.
In the end, I'd advise you to not screw with any thing, and learn how to surf the thing, because the problem is probably you, not the board(i don't mean this offensivly, but you mentioned it in your post). Also, there are other boards out there that would suit your surfing better than your current board most likely, so next time research, and ask questions then buy a board.
Yes, quads are fast, but speed comes from the surfer knowing how to utilize the design to its maximum capabilities on the waves at hand.
Oh, and 1 more thing, how many times have you surfed it, and what were the waves like? It could be that you surfed it only a couple of times in choppy conditions. I think that deep concaves don't perform well in those contitions, so try it on a glassy morning :)
ha ha ha, don't you just love Sways? completely contradicting opions! more reason to just try lot's of stuff and find out for yourself what you like =)
To toss (yet another) wrench into it - what fins are you using?
IMHO - Fast = Stiff(er), less cant, no additional toe in, and decent rake when combined with the above turning style. Not the plastic ones it came with, or H2’s for example
I have a single concave “quadvertible”. It surfs easyl as a Thruster, but is MUCH faster and more responsive as a Quad (edge finned). The catch is, as a quad, there is a sense of the tail wandering a bit unless I’m actively directing it; and I’ve had a few unexpected results initiating and finishing certain turns. And I have to agree that it doesn’t seem to like chop…
[quote="$1"]
I have a single concave "quadvertible". It surfs easyl as a Thruster, but is MUCH faster and more responsive as a Quad (edge finned). The catch is, as a quad, there is a sense of the tail wandering a bit unless I'm actively directing it; and I've had a few unexpected results initiating and finishing certain turns. And I have to agree that it doesn't seem to like chop...
[/quote]
this has been my experience with my deep single quad
I checked out an A6 a year or two ago in a shop, and as far as I remember, the concave was pretty deep. I was just thinking that this factor combined with an edge setup might make it a tad difficult to transition rail to rail, but alot of it has to do with tail width too. I have never ridden a single concave quad, so I was just speculating as to how it would surf. Lockedin, your board may have a narrower tail and shallower concave so thats probably why an edge setup works great on your board. I'd think that the lift given from the cant of a second fin on a rail might cause problems when combined with with a deep concave , wide tail, etc.
Quality input.
I’ve been surfing 8 years. I know how to pump down the line, I’m just not quite fast enough for super peely critical waves. I always drop to the bottom instead of turning half way and staying high like I should. Mabye I should be angling my take offs.
Anway I have a small wave quad and it makes me surf like a hero. So I think…if I could get just a little more speed out of my a6 I would be golden.
I have a bunch of regular FCS fin boxes lying around so thats why I thought I’d try this.
Current fins are super stiff FCS epoxy.
Thanks guys
Luke
Once I have the new fin position measured out-
can I just cut the holes, and then resin them in, or am I going to have to use a patch of glass over the area? I can never get repair glass to seamlessly blend in with the board. If I have to use a bunch of glass I won’t do it because I will probably just ruin the board.
I’m not sure why you ride a small wave quad better. Is it a smaller board, wider board, flatter board (less rocker)? I’d think a single deep concave would be a fast bottom shape.
I’m getting old and out of shape, so I can identify with dropping down to the bottom instead of turning faster up at the top. Getting on the wave faster helps, angling in helps a lot too. I like taking off at an angle on medium small hollow waves. I had one of those yesterday and it was fun to air drop into the pit and have the momentum to get through a fast section. A guy paddling out said it looked like a fun ride, and I told him that was the wave of the day for me up till then.
The 2 quad set ups I like are the McKee Quatro system, you can download the specs from his website, and Jeff Alexander’s Gemini fin setup. The gemini rear fins are more verticle and straighter than other quad setups, and the rears seem to be about equal distance from the stringer to where the outer forward fins are. I have 2 boards with that quad setup and I like that setup a lot. I usually just eyeball the location of the rears based on where my front fins are. When I add boxes to make quads, I like to use boxes that let me move the fins forward or backward a little to help tune it better. I only use FCS tab fins, so I like to use probox, or I get the little futures boxes designed for twinzers. I don’t know what to tell you if you plan to use regular FCS plugs.
The gemini has a very deep single concave, so that quad setup may work for your board, but I think Jeff had a post about how his fins could be moved forward or backward to tune the board for different types of waves. Try searching for Jeff Alexander Gemini.
I have the same problem with all CI boards. Their noses are too narrow and thin for me, so they bog in anything less than a punchy wave.
A quad could give you additional tail lift which could make the problem worse. Have you tried some Occy’s. Less turning but more speed.
For me the biggest difference between a tri and quad is the tri will go vert easier under the same turning force as a quad.
You lay it over on the bottom turn and crank a turn on a tri and it heads nose first to the sky. The same manouver on a quad keeps the nose pointed down the line, but “elevates” up to the lip. Both will take you up to the lip, but the quad’s nose will still be pointing down the line. This may or not be faster in actual speed, but you will go down the line faster because you didn’t change the boards orientation as much.
I hope that made sense, because it is sort of hard to describe. Go ahead and put some more plugs in. I think you will feel what I mean.
Regular FCS boxes? are they the plugs or fusions?
If plugs, you cannot just drill a holl and put them in. FCS has a particular installation method that requires you to have resin bonded to the deck glass and the pug in an H-pattern.Check the archives. oh, and also, put glass patch before installing, but be sure to pre sand.
If fusions, you'll need a jig, unless your gonna trace it and do a rough job
[quote="$1"]
Hello,
I have a merrick A6 6'4'' thruster
I am not getting the speed I need to make it through sections. (i know its my fault, not the board)
SO I am thinking about adding in more fcs fin plugs to make it essentially a 5 fin system.
Too broke right now to buy a new board. So I want to turn my three fin into four.
Thoughts?
Luke
[/quote]
I don't ride a short board. I had a MRI on my right knee on Friday. Waiting for the results.......I love surfing.... I'll be out of the water for a while.
You can add fins to your board....It's quite simple...sounds like a fun thing to do....As a backyarder you don't have to worry about the "industry" or what the "pros" ride. I took a tri fin surfboard and made it into a 2 +1. The side boxes moved forward almost 1 inch. Fun ,Fun ,Fun.
I've done three repairs this year on boards that have been modified with two extra boxes....Go for it.....I'm with ChrisP when we talk about fin placement but I really don't have a clue about shortboards
Thank Ben Chipper...aka Chipfish61...aka Chipfin61.......aka chipfish.....He's been doing it for years!
I didnt read all the comments.
No harm in adding more plugs. You can always go back. Put the rear fins off the rail more than the front, 1\8" toe an more upright than the front fins. These are the basic rules.
It may be more beneficial to just play with the existing set up though by trying different fins.
hi 'luke skywalker' !!
a timely thread , as this is what i'm intending to do to either my 6'6 gunther rohn pintail , or my 6'3 Island rounded square ....
let me know how it goes , ?please post photos/ of before and after , and ...
stay in touch eh ??
cheers
ben
[quote="$1"]
[quote="$1"]
Hello,
I have a merrick A6 6'4'' thruster
I am not getting the speed I need to make it through sections. (i know its my fault, not the board)
SO I am thinking about adding in more fcs fin plugs to make it essentially a 5 fin system.
Too broke right now to buy a new board. So I want to turn my three fin into four.
Thoughts?
Luke
[/quote]
...I've done three repairs this year on boards that have been modified with two extra boxes....Go for it.....I'm with ChrisP when we talk about fin placement but I really don't have a clue about shortboards
Thank Ben Chipper...aka Chipfish61...aka Chipfin61.......aka chipfish.....He's been doing it for years!
[/quote]
....wow , THAT was an old photo !!
.....those early fins of mine look atrocious , thank goodness my skills have improved a bit since then ??!!
as per your above photo ,
re : the 'prawn' board, BEFORE the multi-plug installs ...
i'd almost forgotten it started as a single fin !
then , a thruster
then three plugs , for a twin keel
then a quad
then , eventually , a five finner
THEN ....
old , full of dings , heavy , and waterlogged ...R.I.P. ??!!
[ I just wonder if whoever picked it up from the roadside verge council collection day ever ended up riding it ??!!]
cheers for the memory , Ray !!
ben
p.s. - all the best with your rehab , mate !!