When we talk about design who is the Man. Who has more to do with design and the future of the sport??? The shaper/designer or the surfer ( user ) Is the shaper the chicken or the egg??? Is the surfer the chicken or the egg??? Who came first? (The intended purpose of surfboards by their users is “play”. Board users want to know how long a board is by their criteria, not by the criteria imposed by the shaper’s geometry.) Who came first the user or the shaper. “criteria imposed by the shaper’s geometry”. I have no answer i’m just a shaper… but i do surf to?? No trip here Noodle just i find it weird that you made such a statement… Who do we look to…To set Criteria?? I gotta get away and shape you guys kill me…
“Who do we turn to… to set criteria?” It`s the wave, Rob.
“Who do we turn to… to set criteria?” It`s the wave, Rob. We shape pretty much whatever Grubby is willing to give us.
“Who do we turn to… to set criteria?” It`s the wave, Rob. We shape pretty much whatever Grubby is willing to give us. But we still need to understand who really set’s criteria… The waves came before time even before the chicken and the egg…Is it the board or the wave. Is it a shaper/Designer or the surfer riding the wave. Grubby only makes foam so we can’t say he is responceable for setting criteria of design… The first blanks were just blocks of foam. most all criteria was set in stone before him… Who has more to do with the big pic… Designers ( shaper ) or Surfers.
Who has more to do with design > and the future of the sport???>>> The shaper/designer or the surfer ( user ) You’ve paddled way past the break here bra. I’m not talking about surfboard design or construction criteria, or even the future of surfing, you are. I’m simply talking about what to CALL a 10’long board which measures 10’-1" “around the rocker”. Is it a 10-1 board because the shaper had to “give it rocker”? …That’s all. As I said below, car manufacturere don’t measure car lengths “over the top”. That would be lieing. Surfboard customers deserve no less honesty. …sheesh.
“Who do we turn to… to set criteria?” It
s the wave, Rob.>>> We shape pretty much whatever Grubby is willing to give us.>>> But we still need to understand who really set's criteria.. The waves came > before time even before the chicken and the egg...Is it the board or the > wave. Is it a shaper/Designer or the surfer riding the wave.>>> Grubby only makes foam so we can't say he is responceable for setting > criteria of design.. The first blanks were just blocks of foam. most all > criteria was set in stone before him...>>> Who has more to do with the big pic... Designers ( shaper ) or Surfers. -- For most of my life, Ive been trying to understand, to interplay/harmonize with the ocean and waves… its a wonderful, awesome teacher. For myself, this has always been about getting the most speed, critical positioning and distance out of the surf spots I live closest to and enjoy. My journey as a surfer has lead me to design and build surfcraft which offer the least amount of interference from its basic materials and means of construction, both on land, and in the sea. And when in use, reflecting minimal resistance and effort, producing maximum speed and linear performance. For myself and others scattered around the world, the most logical means to this end has been to allow the wave itself to be the primary designer and shaper... the medium being low pressure, ultralight surfmats. Since everything about a wave is in a state of constant change, and aside from the issues of standing, kneeling, sitting and prone... a surfcraft which can efficiently function as an instantly adaptable interface between rider and wave, operating with an almost living resiliency/sensitivity, makes a tremendous amount of practical sense. Someday when Ive ridden my last wave, I`ll be quite pleased to have left no trace on the water, but instead to bear the imprint of the sea upon my soul.
You’ve paddled way past the break here bra.>>> I’m not talking about surfboard design or construction criteria, or even > the future of surfing, you are. I’m simply talking about what to CALL a > 10’long board which measures 10’-1" “around the rocker”. Is > it a 10-1 board because the shaper had to “give it rocker”?>>> …That’s all.>>> As I said below, car manufacturere don’t measure car lengths “over > the top”. That would be lieing.>>> Surfboard customers deserve no less honesty.>>> …sheesh. Noodle this post has nothing to do about 10 foot boards it has to do with who sets criteria of board design Surfer or shaper… It’s what you said that made me write this post. It had nothing to do with your 10 ft boards. It’s the question about who has more to do with how boards are made and why we do the things we do when it comes to design… Do we design what Grubby and Rusty think work or do real surfers/shapers set the trends we follow. The criteria we follow. I just like to start post that make us think… For many of us we answer many basic questions. What i like to do is stir up trouble get people to take stands on design or hot topics like Pop Outs. Single fins being the only way to ride a longboard. Does Herb smoke to much?? Does RB sniff to much?? Just like to read the responce… Sorry if you took it personal. By the way no matter how you measure a 10 foot board if the shaper says it 10 it’s 10 foot. He designed it based on what he knows!!! So if it comes up short it’s because he designed it that way and the guy in the shop didn’t know how to measure it Right!!! No one gets short changed here… Rob
Noodle this post has nothing to do about 10 foot boards it has to do with > who sets criteria of board design Surfer or shaper… It’s what you said > that made me write this post. It had nothing to do with your 10 ft boards.>>> It’s the question about who has more to do with how boards are made and > why we do the things we do when it comes to design…>>> Do we design what Grubby and Rusty think work or do real surfers/shapers > set the trends we follow. The criteria we follow.>>> I just like to start post that make us think… For many of us we answer > many basic questions. What i like to do is stir up trouble get people to > take stands on design or hot topics like Pop Outs. Single fins being the > only way to ride a longboard. Does Herb smoke to much?? Does RB sniff to > much?? Just like to read the responce…>>> Sorry if you took it personal. By the way no matter how you measure a 10 > foot board if the shaper says it 10 it’s 10 foot. He designed it based on > what he knows!!! So if it comes up short it’s because he designed it that > way and the guy in the shop didn’t know how to measure it Right!!!>>> No one gets short changed here…>>> Rob – Rob, don`t you think that if oversized, rectangular blocks of foam were standard issue for shaping, designs might be a bit more varied? It would definitely require a lot more skill to start with a “blank canvas”… some of the EPS/epoxy guys work that way.
.>>> It’s the question about who has more to do with how boards are made and > why we do the things we do when it comes to design…>>> Do we design what Grubby and Rusty think work or do real surfers/shapers > set the trends we follow. The criteria we follow. … One of the thing I like the most about making my hollow boards is, I’m not relying on a preconcived piece of foam to limit what I want to make…I have to design the length, rocker, thickness, width and foil…It feels ral good to be free of the “industy” umbelical cord…It’s refreshing out here…Anyone care to join me??? Paul http://www.swaylocks.com/resources/Detailed/397.html
–>>> Rob, don`t you think that if oversized, rectangular blocks of foam were > standard issue for shaping, designs might be a bit more varied? It would > definitely require a lot more skill to start with a “blank > canvas”… some of the EPS/epoxy guys work that way. Hell yes that was one of the points does Gruby and Rusty set the trends and criteria that we follow now… I don’t remember who said this to me but look how much design went on in the SBR 67 to 73… Look at mag from then and design was all over the board… Give me a block of foam… That would be a true test of a shaper…
.>>> … One of the thing I like the most about making my hollow boards is, I’m > not relying on a preconcived piece of foam to limit what I want to > make…I have to design the length, rocker, thickness, width and foil…It > feels ral good to be free of the “industy” umbelical cord…It’s > refreshing out here…Anyone care to join me???>>> Paul Living in Westport is as far out as one can get from the industy. Just doing my own thing is what it’s all about… Surf then shape in that order… I’ll leave the wood work to you…
.>>> … One of the thing I like the most about making my hollow boards is, I’m > not relying on a preconcived piece of foam to limit what I want to > make…I have to design the length, rocker, thickness, width and foil…It > feels ral good to be free of the “industy” umbelical cord…It’s > refreshing out here…Anyone care to join me???>>> Paul Ya Paul!! The air is always fresher outside the box! I used to be a luthier, and it was always much more creative and satisfying to bring another instrument to life by means of unadorned, seasoned, oversized wood… no pre-cuts, no kits. I prefer a blank canvas.
.>>> … One of the thing I like the most about making my hollow boards is, I’m > not relying on a preconcived piece of foam to limit what I want to > make…I have to design the length, rocker, thickness, width and foil…It > feels ral good to be free of the “industy” umbelical cord…It’s > refreshing out here…Anyone care to join me???>>> Paul – Ya Paul!! The air is always fresher outside the box! I used to do a bit of work as a luthier, and it was always much more creative and satisfying to bring another instrument to life by means of unadorned, seasoned, oversized wood… no pre-cuts, no kits. I prefer a “blank canvas”.
Hell yes that was one of the points does Gruby and Rusty set the trends > and criteria that we follow now… I don’t remember who said this to me but > look how much design went on in the SBR 67 to 73… Look at mag from then > and design was all over the board…>>> Give me a block of foam… That would be a true test of a shaper… From my limited new blank experience and yet also from my road-kill stockpile of workable foam I would offer the observation that the one bad thing in contemporary surfboard blanks (close tolerance) is the loss of the “big block of foam/anything goes” opportunity. To try to do anything below that limited space near the crust of a close tolerance blank seems to invite early board decay. If early board decay isn’t a problem then I guess we can hack and glue away. But it must stifle some creativity.
When we talk about design who is the Man. Who has more to do with design > and the future of the sport???>>> The shaper/designer or the surfer ( user )>>> Is the shaper the chicken or the egg???>>> Is the surfer the chicken or the egg???>>> Who came first?>>> (The intended purpose of surfboards by their users is “play”. > Board users want to know how long a board is by their criteria, not by > the criteria imposed by the shaper’s geometry.)>>> Who came first the user or the shaper. “criteria imposed by the > shaper’s geometry”.>>> I have no answer i’m just a shaper… but i do surf to??>>> No trip here Noodle just i find it weird that you made such a statement… > Who do we look to…To set Criteria??>>> I gotta get away and shape you guys kill me… Look to yourself.