…1: still Im thinking that we ll see in the future what occurs with the media and the surfers…
…2: may be you re a lucky guy
…3: man, you make me grab my guitar just right now
cheers
70,s tokai equals 150$
12 years ago
one of the best electrics ive played including vintage goldtop les paul
every one called them crap then as well
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It will definently not hurt to hang on to some of those jobs for a sport, lifestyle and Industry that has been so good to us for so long.
Mike
The art of surfing has been good to those of us who enjoy it for what it is. The so called lifestyle created by magazines, movies and apparel companies has done no good for no one but those who own those companies. You want to really help surfing…quit buying surfing magazines, quit buying name brand surf clothing (what ever the hell thats supposed to be) and quit shopping in Surf shops that sell that shit. I say that having owned a few surf and skate shops. Something else…when you have most of the major shapers and then some selling out to Surf tech and boardworks…giving them their names to use for a little royalty and free advertisment…you have let the corporate mentality become the standard of the so called industry and when it bites you there will be no one to blame but the person you look at in the mirror. The entire industry needs an overhaul from top to bottom. In fact…the entire industry as it is today needs to go bust, so surfing can simply go back to being something magical to do instead of puke kids that just learned how to top turn begging for sponsorship at the local shop for a fifteen percent discount and stickers on their boards. While magazines tell us who they think the best surfer on the planet are.
On China: I have written so many post on that subject and yet that problem appears set to become the standard.
The bottom line with China as a nation is it has one of the worst records of human rights violations of any country. It’s people (which are hard working and creative) don’t have true freedom and they are mistreated. Thailand has one of the worst sex slave trades in the world and though it’s technically illegal…the government could stop it but does not. See my article…Is it right to buy surfboards made in China.
Morally we have a decision to make and since there is certainly no grey area when it comes to this type of thing you have to take one of two outlooks. The first is that you are supporting everything evil done in those countries if you buy their products and American busineses that use those countries for the neo slave labor are the same as plantation owners in North Carolina in 1865 only indirectly. Even if at the moment few of us have much of a choice in not buying something made in China and would probably choose otherwise if we did…it’s still the way it is. The other is to do as suggested and attempt to force our government to pass laws against American business doing business overseas with countries that have horrible human rights records. We did it to South Africa…why not China. One thing to keep in mind though is the last time Americans had the majority of the business in the Car builders…they raped the American public with inferior automobiles and that were overpriced. This allowed Japan to gain a foothold here in that industry by producing superior products and better prices. So…there is a catch to every action. Personally…if given a choice I would pay more for a product from countries that take care of their workers and their citizens at least enough to make sure there is no slave labor and a fair open market. I am not against world trade by any means…but I think the trade needs to be fair and balanced.
The only product China has is it’s labor force and that force is provided by mistreatment.
Most surfers are not students of history.Right now china is in their industrial revolution.How long before their labor movement starts ?They will have their Gompers and Sullivans and then watch what happens, Either no to slow goods and or increasing prices
Considering that the Industrial Revolution of the Western World started around the early 1800’s and the establishment of a middle class didn’t happen until after WWII, we will be long since dead by the time the rest of the world catches up.
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Most surfers are not students of history.Right now china is in their industrial revolution.How long before their labor movement starts ?They will have their Gompers and Sullivans and then watch what happens, Either no to slow goods and or increasing prices
I would normally agree and good observation…but I was looking at that video of our troops shooting four Iraqi insurgents from two miles away …at night and it makes me think: With those type of weapons…governments will be able to quell most rebellions from a distance. Disturbing when you consider that you can off someone that looks like nothing but a video game.
the iraq’s are winning
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the iraq’s are winning
True enough…it’s their country not ours. We have no right to be there, but that footage of shooting two miles away is still chilling.
Shine, You rule mate! Your spot on! The US Gov. has been borrowing from the China banks for years now (Bush) to cover our deficit. So over they table they give us $ and then they have us by the balls under the table. If we don’t act we will lose our industry as they want to be the “Factory of the World”. We need Quotas on imports on the classification of surfboards. It’s time to band and make a stand if not the USA will follow Aust and NZ. Do you know how many people this will put out of work! Don’t forget the panic of the Clark shut down this will be worse as it will be permenant! We need to get off our butts!
Real free trade (i.e., a true open market in which individuals are free to trade and barter with other individuals without governmental or quasi-governmental coercion) does not exploit, but what is shoveled by politicians under that slogan is invariably both exploitive and coercive. A good question is, “If it is truly free, why are thousands of pages of treaties, agreements and regulations needed to define it?”
-Samiam
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Real free trade (i.e., a true open market in which individuals are free to trade and barter with other individuals without governmental or quasi-governmental coercion) does not exploit, but what is shoveled by politicians under that slogan is invariably both exploitive and coercive. A good question is, “If it is truly free, why are thousands of pages of treaties, agreements and regulations needed to define it?”
-Samiam
Good one Sam.
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may be you ll survive in several things, but not making boards
because now is the start of a new generation of surfboards with material and techniques that in the future only the corporations or the rich ones will have access…
I’d like to disagree with this, but there’s one area that I’m not sure about, and it’s the shaping machines. Hopefully those in the know can chime in about shaping machines and their accuracy, and how/if that accuracy will improve in the future.
Can the blank shaping machines of the future be extremely accurate and fast?
If they can, I think Surftech is done – stick a fork in them.
…in the future will be there too many people in the world; so, the goverments will be in the knees of the mega corporations
and the real good ( Hight tech; proved ones)materials will be no more available for smaller builders
yes; the machines of the ´60 s were almost only mowers
the late ´80s were a bit better
the middle ´90 s far better
these years machines do more than 80% of the shape…
so in a few years more, probably will be 99%…
man, it s all about the f…ing money
the cottage or super guru niche is crap…
nobody still can refuse me that the materials are the fact
yep, you can make a board with whatever
but not survive with that (think in …lost and all the hype, etc)
Shaping machines are already pretty accurate. Much more than any human.
You can scan handshaped boards and reproduce their critical dimensions exactly… over and over. Machined blanks still have a few minutes of finish work before they’re ready for glassing. Making the blanks totally perfect, with the right machine, is possible but not economical.
Shaping machines have cutting blades that make passes down the length of the board. The more passes you make, the more smooth and finished the blank gets. Each pass takes time. Time that you could be using to make more boards… which is why you bought the machine in the first place. Hand finishing take a few minutes.
If you make enough boards that you need a machine, you can afford one. They’re not that difficult to make, if you’re mechanically inclined. You can rent time on other people’s machines. Machined blanks are within any shaper’s reach.
Digitally inclined small-time shapers use machines. Hot local shapers with stacks of orders use them. Brand name big gorillas use them. The Chinese use them too.
One thing that won’t change in China or here, is boards will require skilled hands to finish. The best boards are always going to be finished by people who understand what they’ll be used for. Finish-sanding the blank, glassing, and sanding can all make or break a magic board. Serious surfers will always understand this and select their equipment accordingly. The market share China is aiming at is the entry level (read mass-market) customer. Someone who wants a cheap, pretty surfboard.
A lot of people seem to think the surf industry is a huge pot of gold. By most standards, there’s not much cash behind the mystique… especially in boards. Look what happened with Clark Foam - everyone dogpiled to put their foam out there thinking they’d get their big slice of pie. It turns out, it was a big slice for one mouth, but there’s not enough pie to feed everyone. The successful foam companies are the ones that are surviving. Many of the stary-eyed upstarts threw in the towel once they realized it was harder than they thought it would be.
If you don’t love surfing, there’s no reason to be in the surf industry. You can make way more money doing something else.
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…Making the blanks totally perfect, with the right machine, is possible but not economical.
…
One thing that won’t change in China or here, is boards will require skilled hands to finish.
kendall, if a machine that could make the blanks perfectly became economical, do you think Surftech would cease to be a danger to shapers?
Also, if a machine could make the blank perfectly, why would it need hands to finish (apart from glassing/sanding)?
I think Surftech has found their niche, and is doing an impressive job of exploiting it. The first boards they made with Velzy were some of the most impressive compsands I’ve ever seen. As they started ramping up and skipping the exotic wood outer layer, they were precieved as a second rate product - only usable by novice surfers. The whole “made in Taiwan” thing was a giant barrier that they bumping into hard. Now that Surftech’s signed up over sixty respected shapers with more than 300 models and figured out how to build the boards to optimize the technology, they have become a premium product. Surftech’s typically cost more than their poly counterparts.
The Chinese poly board / Surftech comparison is apples to oranges. Surfers who buy Surftechs are usually starting out looking to buy a Surftech these days. Mostly they’re looking for durability and predictable shapes.
The ones that will be most affected are the mid to large sized poly board makers that compete for racks at surfshops. They’re also the ones that are leading the charge to have boards made in China - knocking themselves off. Look at what Al Merrick is doing with Anacappa. You can now buy Merrick designed boards, made in China, for $200 less then their US made cousins. If you’re not a label whore, or don’t care where the board was made, you can save scratch and get nearly identical products, built from the same materials.
Anacappa’s are definately cutting into Merrick sales, but Al ends up making more because their markup is the same - Al and the dealer make the same amount of money (almost to the dime) on the $450 Anacappa as they do on a $650 CIS. Easier sale for the dealer. Simple for Al. The negative is it ends up hurting the brand by chipping away at the thought that only Merricks surf like Merricks.
I still think small shapers won’t be that affected by either Surftech or the Chinese. It’s a different buyer for each of those boards. Not to say that experienced surfers won’t buy ST of China made boards, but not usually as their primary ride. The one thing you’ll never be able to do is order a totaly custom product from either of these sources. Hi-end customs will always be what drives the rest of the market. Even the guys who work at Surftech (maybe I should say especially the guys at Surftech) have their personal custom polys. Just like the guy who owns the local Volkswagon dealership probably drives a Porsche.
Soul surfers will always want boards with soul. I keep hearing guys complain about how capitalism is ruining the industry, and will end up killing their ablility to make a living selling boards. If you’re trying to make a living selling boards, you’re a capitalist. If you want to stay small, you’re just a small-time capitalist. Shapers that make boards as art, are artists. Saying they will be affected by China made boards is equivalent to saying a painting by Picasso won’t sell because someone is producing posters of it. Even though they’ll sell tons of posters, the original art will always be in demand. The fact that not everyone can have originals only makes them better.
Oh… I haven’t answered you’re question about the machined blanks… The final sanding of the blank is only one of the critical steps to making a decent board. Glassing and sanding are still really big factors in the finished product. The thing China has the edge over us on is the cost of labor. The Chinese boards will probably always be labor intensive because that’s where they can kick our ass. Surftechs are way more labor intensive than poly boards. If they made them here, they’d never sell because people wouldn’t be willing to pay the price. People say popout, but don’t consider what it takes to get the board from mold to finished. With American labor, STs would end up costing three times as much as they do now.
We made Hydro Epics in California using the most expensive materials you could think of and about four times the labor of a poly board. Because they came out of molds, we took a lot of flack from people who told us they weren’t “real” surfboards. I still don’t get that part. They’re not now, or are they likely to ever be, customs… but to me they qualify as surfboards. We spent two years and $2 million just making boards to test. A full set of molds costs around $20k for one model in one size. Tweaking flex and lamination schedules adds time and money. It’s up uphill swim, but they’re still stroking. If it’s only for the money, there’s something grossly wrong with the equation. The way to make a small fortune making surfboards is to start with a large fortune.
It all boils down to personal choice. Some folks like wearing clothes where the label is the most distinguishing part. Others opt for handmade rags from natural fibers. Some people have some of each. It’s a big world out there. Whether companies survive or fail won’t change the joy you can have as an individual surfing your favorite spot. If the entire industry collapsed, there would still be too many surfers at the popular breaks.
Hey dave, ya more busy on Sway than in the shaping room I see 
Put up more than 70 boards out this year, " made in Holland".
There is nothing wrong with the french and UK suppliers, and if ya need some special, SOCAL and US in only a fedex or UPS away. Foamez are always there for me for some special items…
Keep on the good job…I will stocking all Seabase shaping supply in 2007, and have a special GARAGE SHAPER price list…:_)
regards
Arnaud
Hola Arnaud,
Yeah, going strong on numbers 4 and 5 now! I get some stuff from france but it is expensive when you are ordering only two or three boards worth to pay 60 bucks shipping.
Send me the pricelist, I look forward to see what you got.
congrats on 70 boards!
{edit}
any news on your price list??
Hi,
cool, I will get it after the holiday period, it will be a special one for shaper without BTW nummer…but it will save you hips of shipping cost. I will also have the Resin Research Epoxy… I see you
…ok,
I understand all your points
but machines have nuthin to do with surfing or surfboards
they dont contribute in almost any aspect (only to do similar shapes)
.they re there only to produce more -AKA the money-
.and for long time shapers that are tired of years mowing foam…
.time
-in other note: I repaired several Bushman (included P Sullivan s); of course machined (but have a “handcrafted” decal…) that sports the same and even worst mistakes than a hand shaped board…
-if the blank is bad and twisted, and the operator doesnt spend some time tweaking and do the right stuff, you ll (finish shaper) finish with more problems than if you cut, measurement and handshape by yourself