Just visited my local surf shop, Innerlight in Navarre Fl and came away very disgusted. At least 70% or more of the boards from China, American Board Works co. was one brand and a few others. I can understand the Surftechs and the Boradworks but now surf shops are carrying the stuff Costco and other discount stores are selling? I never thought I would see the day when a surf shop would do that to surfboard industry.
Not quite the same, but last Saturday I was surfing C-Street in Ventura and noticed way more pop-outs than I have seen in the line up before. The Ventura Surf Shop is also full of pop-outs. Then these are $700+ boards so going to the other end of the spectrum from the China discount store boards.
it was the surfshops that lead the charge , but it was done on the quiet …you would get 6or 7 shops forming buying groups getting 40 boards each out of a container …
there motivation was bigger margins , in some cases they could double there money on surfboards …at first it wasnt really that obvious , because the boards were being sold at respectable prices , but as more and more surfshops starting stocking asian boards , then gsi starting pushing combined with surftech pitching at manufacturers , and before you know it everyone is competing against one another with cheap imported boards , prices started getting so low , that it became obvious to everyone …
when asian boards were getting retailed for less than the cost of a wholesale local board and in some cases not much more than just the material costs of local board builders …
the bottom line is , the surf shops have sold out the surfboard industry …
FACT!!!
now a surf shop with asian boards is not a real surf shop is it ???
shop up front , factory out the back …
spot the fake …
regards
BERT
With out a DOUBT. Best surf shops I have ever been in are the ones that build thier own. I have always been told buy surf shop owners that the profit is not in the boards it’s in all the other items they sell. I often stop in on this particular shop just to look at boards, to compare new boards to what I am making. I would never buy even a bar of wax from this shop, but was really surprised buy all the China crap on this trip. If a surf shop doesn’t support the true professional board builders eventually all we will have to surf on is crap. Not sure if I would like to build boards full time but with this happining it makes it very hard for someone new breaking into the buisness.
Tell the shop owners how you feel about the cheap imports, some shop owners actually believe that by stocking cheap chinese imports they are helping out the local shapers by allowing people that would not usually buy a board to be “introduced” to the sport that otherwise would not be there in the beginning. I don’t agree. How will a customer come back to order a board made by local or non import if they don’t learn on good equiptment and have a good experience? Sorry I don’t agree.
Personally, I believe that the main reason is the profit margins and taking advantage of the beginer that doesn’t know they are buying a cheap chinese import.
Just don’t support the shops that carry imports, I feel that as a local shaper you should have enough “voice” to let customers know how the imports are taking away these jobs. What next? Surfboards at Wal Mart?
I say just boycott the shops that carry them and tell your customers and let the owners of these retail shops know how you feel about the cheap chinese imports. Maybe the retail mind set will shift to the actual shaper, cusomer will eventually order boards directly from the shaper. I feel this shift in purchasing already. And a wind of change may occur, remember back not too long ago when the shaper actually owned the retail shop?
Ok, as a guy who runs a surf shop that doesn’t carry new boards for a reason, let me wander in on this
The first rule of business is staying in business. You lose money, you’re out of business. And custom surfboards, on the rack, are a money losing proposition.
Yeah. You lay out X amount of money, up front, and the custom surfboard guy sends you what he feels like sending you. Not what you asked for, unless you are a big enough piece of his total production that losing you means he’s out of business. See Rule #1.
The Chinese boards are, in fact, as good as many production boards. I sell neither, so maybe I can be considered an impartial observer. The brand name hype that is going on…look, a Made In China is no worse made or constructed than a standard Stewart, ok? And it sells for a helluva lot less. And if I carried new boards, yeah, I’d have some of those. Might mean I didn’t have to sit on a $500+ ( my cost) ‘name’ board for a while and expect $50 to $0 to minus$100 profit on the thing, money out up front and whatever crappe’ the ‘name’ maker sent me getting dusty in my rack. I could discount a Chinese board $100 and still break even or better.
Like I said, I got out of carrying new surfboards. It’s the least ( in fact, negative) profitable end of the line. I stay in business, I have a fairly good time at it and stick around. The current fascination with surfing will go away again and maybe it will sort itself out. Maybe. I’m old enough to remember Dextras and Hawaiian Customs and Keokis and the like…popouts. Now, that junk is ‘classic’, to the idiot collectors.
ya never know
doc…
You just stated just about every reason I decided to become proficient at the hobby of building a surfboard. I live in the boons, and we have one surfshop, it carry’s an extremely limited selection of locally built boards, say 4 or 5 on a good day. It also has a few used boards now and again, not a lot of turnover here. He seems to have avoided turning japanese although a surftech sullies his doors from time to time. He does however have an order book behind the counter for one of the premiere builders in our state. I like to think of him as one of the good guys, but I still can’t afford the sport unless I cut costs as a consumer. That means either learning to build my own, or buying imports. Never was a rich man, and I always bought used when I lived in metropolitan areas, with a lot of choices. Now that I’m in the hinterlands, building boards seems to be the best option.
sorry doc, I don’t agree. All the chinese boards that I’ve seen don’t match up in quality to the boards where I am. Not even close. Maybe to the untrained eye they look OK.
I have owned a few retail shops and have always done well selling boards made here. Yes, You won’t get rich but I felt like I was supporting a cause. I have always felt selling boards was not about making money. If you are a true retailer, you use the boards to draw in customers to make a profit on the softgoods. If you aren’t getting what you want maybe you need to look to other shapers? There are plenty around that will be willing to work with you. Oh yeah but you don’t sell either, so how can you say.
It’s just that type of thinking that is going to kill the retail market when Costco and Wal Mart start selling the same chinese made boards and start to under sell you. Then what? I hope the shapers in your area are forgiving.
Ask all the small mom and pop retailers around areas where the Wal Marts open up. Devastated areas. Oh yeah…but the prices are cheaper.
People forget…Eminent Front…It’s a put on.
by allowing people that would not usually buy a board to be “introduced”
to the sport that otherwise would not be there
I’m sorry to say that if I had not walked through Costco and seen/bought the 9’0" Realm for $400, I would not have gotten back into surfing after 15-20 years away. Sure eventually I might have, but witht he cost of new boards I’m not sure when I would have spent the money. To the un-knowing it is a board. It has been a great board with good performance. The only down side has been it was made on the cheap. Soft foam and thin glass. But to the bargin shopper you don’t know that till it is too late. After a while I decided I wanted more so I started talking to local shapers to order a custom, but that was after I was hooked. While researching what I thought I wanted from/for my custom I ended up here. Now, again, I still have no interest in buying custom because thanks to everyone here I build instead. Now I would not recommend that anyone buy a costco board because they are cheaply made, but so are many of the production boards available in local shops. If you want a durable board you prety much have to get a custom and request that it be made beafer than stock. So I would not bash China so much as our great American way of look for a bargin and buy what you don’t need. Instead of bashing on China, figure out how to educate the public on what the difference is between local (quality not just local) and the rest and those who care will spend the extra. If I had known, I would have.
Whether or not we support or dont support the Asian imports there they are and their here to stay.
We here at Swaylocks are in a unique position to share knowledge to make a better product. We cant compete on price so our only alternative is to build a better board. Better materials, better construction, better shapes. We can hate them all we want but they keep coming…theres no other choice.
Here’s a list of the boards I have owned before I started making my own. A Da Cat, Yater Spoon, Hobie, Jacobs, Infinity, HIC, Local Motion, Rusty, Channin, Senate, and yes a Stewart. By no means do they compare in the slightest way to a China made board. After 17 boards under my belt, you can possible compare my boards but I have only made a few and am very much a newbie. Compared to the American Board works boards I have seen mine are better.
im agreeing with everyone so far on this topic …
the cheaper boards do let people into the consumer base that would otherwise not be there …
but most retailers dont bother carrying more boards , asian imports end up replacing local boards coz the margins are better …
there are only so many racks in a surfshop , so why not fill them up with the boards that offer the best margins ???
when shops do stock local boards alongside imports , they will always lean towards selling the higher margin boards …
as far as quality , well you can get good quality or bad quality anywhere , local or imported …
ive seen some shocking quality imported boards , but ive seen some real good ones to …
i agree that we need low priced entry level boards , thats a good thing …
but what it does is leave existing board builders locally , being more dependant on custom orders, so now you have a trend of alot more board builders getting into accessories and setting up retail as well so they can make a few extra dollars on the softgoods …
thats putting pressure back on surfshops …
because there not seen as real when compared against a shop/factory style outlet …
so was the goal of trying to make a few extra dollars on boards really worth it for the retailers ???
kinda shot themselves in both feet …
yes the imports are here to stay , so youll see a reshuffle and things will flow differently …
regards
BERT
I’m glad that you’ve been reintroduced to surfing via Costco. For $400. You could have easily purchased a great beginner board directly from a local shaper. The only way you were introduced was through convenience while bulk shopping. Do some research.
And, it’s not about China bashing. It’s about supporting your own.
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I’m glad that you’ve been reintroduced to surfing via Costco. For $400. You could have easily purchased a great beginner board directly from a local shaper. The only way you were introduced was through convenience while bulk shopping. Do some research.
There are a couple of different issues being discussed here, but I love flogging a dead horse so let me once again offer the simplest, cheapest solution for local shapers, production houses, and retailers:
Tape a photocopy of the complete manufacturing order for each and every board to that board so any potential customer can see every step and every material. Put the names of the craftspeople at every step.
This is so freaking easy that I have to say that if one is aware of the concept not doing this is either a sign of paranoia, greed, or total stupidity. I’m sure there are plenty of all three to go around. Big Brother, doing research is nearly useless unless someone stumbles in Swaylock’s. Go into any reputable shop in urban Southern California and you may see some of the best boards in the world, and you almost NEVER see any information on the board beyond the length and price. Some boards will have the glass shop logo. You can, of course, ask the shop rats or salespeople, 90% of whom have already pre-judged you based on appearance as to how much money they might liberate.
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i agree that we need low priced entry level boards , thats a good thing …
but what it does is leave existing board builders
What would be best for the surfboard sales and construction business is stock surfboards by local builders. Somebody new or re-entering surfing doesn’t need a custom board, yet the custom design hype never ends. Strongly built, stock boards will last and retain trade-in value, which also builds relationships between customers and shops. It’s maybe a tough one to finance, to be sure; perhaps lost forever as the gulf between retailer/builders and simple retailers grows.
The materials list and craftsmen list is a good idea and let’s also have these on the imports also.
I feel that it’s upto the person edeavoring into something as surfing which is a lifestyle to do their own research before just taking the leap. No excuse for this type of ignorance. Easy, just ask questions, even more be able observe. If you aren’t getting honest replies go somewhere else. This was a way for the rights of passage from kook to respected surfer. Part of the whole surfing experience was to have freedom to search and learn for yourself. You had to earn it, so kooks were more or less had there place by there own ignorance. Atleast this was the path way for most of us.
99% of all the quality mfgrs’ use pretty much the same materials and techiques, infact it maybe the same craftsmen working in multiple factories. There is really no secrets among these craftsmen. Quality is quite evident and the work speaks for itself, labels would be for the uninitiated.
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I'm glad that you've been reintroduced to surfing via Costco. For $400. You could have easily purchased a great beginner board directly from a local shaper. The only way you were introduced was through convenience while bulk shopping. Do some research.
yes if I had known what I know now I could have a got a local built board to $400, but the non-surfer does not know this. They walk into the shop and see one of several things: 1) $$$ big name boards 2) boards that look cheap but still cost 3) board that are already dinged… Sure I could have bought a good quality used board, but I am not a buy used guy and why buy used when I can buy new for the same or less.
Well now I know. There is a quality difference, but for the average guy who walks into a surf shop they can tell the difference. When you ask the folks in the shop what the difference between board x and board you get meaningless “dude, bra” comments that make it quite obvious that the only difference they are able to convey is Bill Stewart ro who ever else made board x and that is why you should spend their entire months wages on that board.
Quality/durable boards… shops (generally) don’t carry them because that is not what the trendy crowd wants. They want the disposable boards that Slater surfs. True a entry level surfer does not need a true custom board, but unfortuneately to get what they do nedd, a durable board. They are some what forced to know to find a local shaper and get a special order stock board and to request a durable blank and glass job. This does not sound like entry level knowledge, does it?
So what we (surfers who care) need to do is help educate the world that there is a difference between boards and $$$ does not mean entry level quality. What is needed is education. “Knowledge will set you free”
This is just a NEW business model applied to the same old industry. What does Wal-mart do? Underprices on some items to kill the local competition. The oil industry here in California tried to run the prices up back in the 70’s-80’s when they manufactured a “shortage” by closing down the refineries for repairs or whatever. But there was the independent little mom and pop gas station selling gas at the same low price that they always had been. The big oil companies just bought them all out so now there is no COMPARISON for the consumer to base a decision on.
The custom surfboard industry is already well past melt-down stage, sorry to say.
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Reputable designers do shapes for the molded import producers, I don’t think they will say anything out-loud. (The only thing I read that said something halfway negative was by Rich Harbor)
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Core shops are hard pressed to stock custom shapes.
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The user base is uneducated and unsophisticated to the difference between handcrafted and molded (even at the beginner level).
Look at feraldaves ad in the vacuum bagging thread. That’s the start of how to fight back. Also jam the internet with information. A site for surfboard buyer consumer awareness comes to mind. If a consumer saw what that wood veneer Surftech looked like broken in half they would at least have something in their mind for COMPARISON when they pull their wallet out and you’re explaining your stringer.
Ad Nauseum. See above reply.
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I feel that it’s upto the person edeavoring into something as surfing which is a lifestyle to do their own research before just taking the leap. No excuse for this type of ignorance
Assuming we all accept the notion of “ignorance” as simply not yet knowing as opposed to “stupid” meaning not learning… everybody would wind up with better value if the education is easily available at point of purchase. Hell, even the shop rats would learn, or at least be halfway accurate. The difference between a $400 import vs. $500 Kleenex vs. a $650 solid board would be there to see, and wise people would determine what the best value would be in relation to their needs…and frequently this results in higher ticket purchases.
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Part of the whole surfing experience was to have freedom to search and learn for yourself. You had to earn it, so kooks were more or less had there place by there own ignorance. Atleast this was the path way for most of us.
And here, my friend, you have broached the most important change in surfing since the short board. The base surfing consumer is no longer the lifestyle rider of waves - it’s the “surf consumer” of 2004, with 5 years or less experience, surf school entry, and enough cash or credit to enter with all equipment and accessories. History begins with Hamilton and Irons; ancient history is Slater. Every chain bookstore in the U.S. has books and DVDs…all recent with the exception of reissues. The definitive history of surfing is written in books which are based on surf magazines while the real juicy stories still pretty much go untold to protect the fantasy (the sales image).
We really do live in an “on demand” era, pathetic to the core. Who is more demanding than a cranky 2 year old child? Yet this is the consumer the business school wonks have spent the past 20 years creating. We are in an age where virtually anyone can easily buy surf lessons, boards, wetsuits, cars, clothes, and live the life. A decent credit card limit and the Costa Rica trips come, maybe even the indo boat trips. Certainly that travel, luxury or not, will advance their abilities much quicker than staying in overpoplulated modern urban surf environments.
The path most of (us) older surfers took began with loving it beyond reason, not simply looking for something to do. Equipment advancements truly have cut that one year of serious struggle to learn down to a summer; the results are equally valid when it comes to creating a surfer (one who surfs). But it isn’t about newcomers paying dues any more - it’s about paying the bills or the interest on them at the end of the month. Consumer credit buys them entrance into the surf world, their “on demand” viewpoint makes it irrelevant to them if their board was built by some worn out old surfer or some Third World wage ape: How much for the green board?
If I was a shop owner selling boards right now, I would make sure the less knowledgeable got extra welcoming attention. People are basically good, and people generally want to belong to something. When the most experienced people abdicate such things as educational responsibilities, those duties are left for whoever steps up: businesses, magazines, peer pressures. Internet websites are on the wane now, being eaten by adware and popups and shelf-life expirations; forums such as this one are where the cyber life is. Swaylock’s is fortunately dominated by open-minded experience; one has only to drift by certain areas of surfermag.com to see what a shouting, predominately younger close-minded mob can create.
Not sure where you are located. I guess it’s a question of how it’s percieved. I relate to surfing as a lifestyle, not as a consumer. I’m sure most that partake in the ritual view it as such.