China Status

Hello Friends at Swaylocks.

I spend quite a lot of time here, but rarely feel compelled to post.  I am amazed by the amount of insightful information here, and equally amused by the amount of misinformation and garbage. 

To give you a little background, I have been sourcing products from China, Taiwan, and Japan for over ten years.  I have also been in the surf business for about that long.  I produce and import surfboards and other products China right now.  Most of you on the west coast have probably seen one of my boards. I travel to China at least 3 times per year.  I am on my 3rd passport in 3 years.  I am also affiliated with several board producers in the US.  Many of my very good friends are shapers you know.  I am offering this information to help all of you understand and respond to the current situation.  I don't care to name specifics, but you will get the thrust of it. 
  1. W Foam is attempting to produce blanks in China. As many of you know, producing blanks is not easy. It took Clark a long time to get where he was. In fact, he probably felt as though he was learning something every week. Even if you lift all environmental constraints, the other issues are tremendous. Do not be fooled into thinking China does not have environmental limitations. The factory is based in a very developed area in South China, and there are significant environmental constraints. Furthermore, there are going to be material supply issues, mold issues, and more. The other most significant issue is trained workers. Once you train them, they get lured to another company with more money, or just for a change. Keeping good workers is one of the biggest problems China factories face.

    W foam is being produced (and was essentially bought by) a Chinese surfboard supplier. For the record, there are four significant producers in China. The 3rd largest (around 35,000 boards / year) of these bought or licensed the W process. Another tremendous problem for China board factories was getting blanks from Australia. They were typically regarded as “B” customers, and many of the blanks were seconds. Given the new demand for Aussie blanks, there will be an even more difficult time for them to get blanks. So, you can bet that the first person getting blanks from W production in China will be the new owner, this surfboard factory. Why would they sell blanks for even 3 times the normal price when a finished board commands a larger profit?

What does this mean? Well, the very people that were building the Chinese boards and bringing them to California so cheap, are the ones you are hoping will bail us out of the Clark closing? Don’t count on it. They will supply their own needs first. It is unlikely that anyone can get blank production to the levels Clark achieved in 40 years. Much less will it occur in 2 months. It takes more than money and desire to build 1000 blanks a day.

  1. The australian blank makers are maxed out. Even if they doubled, they would only make a dent in the US needs. At this time they are not accepting new customers. Clarks closure is considered the opportunity for Aussie labels and manufacturers to gain some share in the US market. Why would they sell blanks to the US when an Aussie board sold in the US is so much more important. Anyone familiar with Oz Government export incentives? Check into it. You will be amazed.

For now, don’t count on China or Australia to come to the rescue. At this point there is no reason for them to do so, unless it is in the form of finished boards.

Rescue yourselves. People and materials exist that can show you how to build boards, maybe even better boards without relying on PU blanks. Ten years from now, we will remember this time as the beginning of the greatest leap forward in board technology ever. Smart and innovative people will experiment, learn, and achieve great things. Other people will go to work at Home Depot. Some of the commercial shapers should have done that a long time ago. There is nothing bad about the rising surfboard prices. Something that gives you so much joy, and takes so much time and skill is worth many times the price you paid for it last week.

I for one will be moving much of my production back to the US. My epoxy partner has been doing it for a long time, and waiting for this day.

I will add more information to this later if anyone cares. We are expecting an update from Oz on monday. Even though a big part of my business relies on Chinese boards, I feel devestated by these developments. Frankly, many of the Chinese boards will dry up as well as Aussie labels drive into the US and demand more blanks. Many of my friends are out of work. Many of my customers will suffer. We can never get that Black Beauty, or the Quan, or Tudor longboard we wanted so bad.

Let’s get over it, and get on with it. The future is out there, and you must go to it. It will never come to you.

(i saw that in subtitles on traditional Chinese Kung Fu movie).

thankyou for posting you information sir, its nice to have someone comment who has all the facts in proportion. good luck with your business as you have a great attitude!

i was going to post a thought on the walker foam thread …

but squire here , basically enforced my thoughts with some facts …

reality check …

im with greg , all this talk of a container here and a container there , just sends out false hopes …

then squire comes and gives us some ground floor details which confirms that people are indeed living in dream land …

option 1 , cut and run …

option 2 ,beg for a living and survive on the occasional available p/u blank …

option 3 ,convert , but be prepared for a steep learning curve and the possibility of still having to cut and run after trying to make it work …

i know right now of 3 different aussie labels who have just landed 5000 orders between them for delivery to the states as soon as humanly possible they can be made …

where are they going to get there blanks ???

and who will the aussie blank makers give priority to???

blanks can be arriving at aussie factories daily , keeping a cleaner cash flow for expansion …

id hate to say it , but the world has been preying on the californian surfboard market for decades , its a known fact its the most valuable surfboard market on earth , but how do you get past clark and all the labels who use his blanks , who have the domestic market sown up , anyone attempting to gain market share from outside the U.S. is just a fringe dweller …

the biggest opportunity imaginable has just landed in the lap of the global surfboard industry …

12 months from now , the american surfboard industry will resemble the world after the bomb …

a rag tag bunch of survivors and clean efficient epoxy /eps factories who had the forsight to prepare for the day and keep new tech and supplies in the bunker till the dreaded day it was really needed …

big call i know , but im on the outside looking in , so am acting on what i see , without the emotional attachment of being a player living in hope …

squires words well and truly back up what ive been seeing and hearing …

i said a while back that the californian surfboard industry was the most insulated on earth …

outside of cali , you have lean well run factories who have had to deal with the asian imports for a lot longer , creating streamlined organised profitable businesses …

all those clark babies , have just been wrenched from the bosom , standing there helplessly without there daily sustainence , the buzzards are already circling before the first victim has even hit the ground …

on a percentage basis , theres less board builders in california with any real alternative material experience , than anywhere else in the world …

all these things are major contributing factors …

to the next 12 months being very uncertain in the U.S.

regards

BERT

I have also had confirmed reports of the same businesses here on the coast receiving major orders from the States, Europe and Japan all countries that survived mostly on Clark in the last week. Don Burford is no fool, he knows that this is the biggest oppurtunity for Australian manufacturers for eons, he also knows to abandon his local customers and to not let them progress and prosper will mean hard times for him when the demand for PU blanks from Australia towards the States and beyond dries up however that happens. He told me about a month ago that this is the first year in many that he has made enough blanks to supply the demand and even have some stock to sell without pre-order, that was then, this is now.

Christmas Holidays are cancelled, it’s all hands on deck around here…

It’s time for this Industry to get even busier, even though it has grown every year anyway. It’s just a pity that more work for us means less for the US factories. Think of it this way as well, even the top US surfers on the tour have been riding Aussie PU’s mostly this year. Kelly rode Simon Andersons to victory, Andy Irons rode JS’s and Chilli’s, Bruce Irons rode JS’s etc etc. This is indeed a bright time for Australian surfboards in general and the challenge here will be being able to make enough to fill the demand. Making 300 boards a week under one label just isnt enough anymore!

Maybe some guys from the States should think about calling one of our majors as I know for a fact that right now they are all hiring and there are major labor shortages over here. Cyclone season is nearly here and what’s one more face in the lineup at Snapper anyway???

Forget Cali The Goldy is the center of the surfboard manufacturing universe now. Even Bert lives here!!!

after the bomb…

wrenched from the bosom…

are these sociopolitical buttons

aimed at iciting riot or a fetal position?

nice board bert .

It must be gratifying to provide such a fine boad to such appreciative

select pros and industry wink wink high mucky mucks.

why when those common people can get their hands on such wonderfull

sports equiptment the world wide angst will be measurably reduced.

you are doing a fine job keep up the good work.

the crusade against POLY UREA THANE

will be someday concluded

and the nobility of poly styrenes with epoxy will indeed reign supreme.

…ambrose…

the roman government quested pax romana

how long will eps tech satisfy the discerning

consumers of sporting equiptment

for ocean use.

dave I want a bike like that to deliver me blanks.

some guy told me today

about blowing seed blocks like that into rectangular solids 50’ long

and he didnt have an ox named blue

Squire, Thanks so much for the reality check. I’m having a hard time reading some of the threads here that are unrealistic dreams. I’ve talked to practically every leader in the world this week and everything your saying is right on the money.

Much of what is being posted are hopes but are closer to dreams. Gordon Clark was a genious at what he did and dedicated a life to that. What he developed over fourty years won’t be duplicated in two months by anyone. It’s silly to think that anyone can believe this. Most of the hopes now lie with a manufacturer who has never been able to fill his orders in his history when demand was a fraction of what we are looking at now. Nicest man on earth by the way and I congradulate him on the success which is now assured. But filling shoes as big as those left behind isn’t realistic.

I’m also having a hard time posting on some of the issues here that I know are false. I don’t want to appear in any way that I am rejoicing in this turn of events. My wife said to me the other night, “we were doing fine, we didn’t need this.” She’s right, we don’t. I have had plenty of other projects come my way recently and those are responibilties I look forward to working on. This is a huge distraction. This is going to be a huge personal challenge, one I am prepared for but something very difficult. It’s fortunate that we did set up in AZ and do have the capacity to do this. I’ve also been assured that the capital to do this will be available as well so…

Thanks Bert, your insight is as spot on as ever. You’re there at ground zero in the one market that that will probably benefit more than any other. Your input this week has been very benficial, especially to me personally. Thanks.

My best suggestion to all involved is, DON"T COUNT ON PROMISES FROM ANYONE!.. I’m sure everyone right now has the best of intentions but don’t base your future on someone else. Save yourself. All the tech is here on sways. If we’re hip deep in urethane foam in three months all the better. But make sure that plan B,C and D are ready to implement in the case that doesn’t happen. This past weeks lesson is don’t count on anyone but yourself. Make sure that as many options are open to you as possible so you can move in any direction nessasary. This is what will ensure your survival. Counting on something that may not come through leaves you as vulnerable as your were on December 2nd.

Well said…Hope all is good will ya Greg. Hopefully we will see you at the trade show in Jan. I wonder how empty it’s going to be or how busy trying to get rid of old surfboard stock.

thanks for your post,

that show that you guys have no idea,

why would australia or any other country will sell foam to usa? well simple, those are PU foam company that want PU to stay, if the state change for epoxy eps, well those guys wont import too many board and those foam company will be out of business…

i have talked with fernando from teccel and yes he will ship blanks/upgrade his factory to make twice as many blanks (they produce already 900/day), i have talk to home blown and yes they will ship blanks, everybody that is in the PU will help because they dont want it to leave.

they have worked on making foam for years, you think they want to let it go…

before you post. please call, make sure you know what you are talking about because the foam company are not the board company, they are in business to sell foam and they will sell a shit load in the state.

most of the foam company are working very hard to upgrade and take this opportunity.

if you want to make eps, go for it but pu will still be here. its all good but dont bring your garbage info or unreality check, because those are only your hopes and not reality…

i just want to be clear, i do epoxy boards and i have nothing against them, but this site seem to love propagandha, some much bullshit info and shiting on diferent tech, man they all good for what they are.

make both tech but the good old pu business should stay alive because the classic board are just not good with epoxy, you dont do air on a 10 foot noserider…

Quote:

make both tech but the good old pu business should stay alive because the classic board are just not good with epoxy, you dont do air on a 10 foot noserider…

Quote:

somebody tell this guy that …

regards

BERT

Yup thanks Squire . . . I scouted out local shops . . . One got a shipment of 40 surftechs in their bubblewrap, plastic pallet saran wrap, and cardboard packaging. Prices were up 100-$200 on small time US shapers, and $250-400+ on big names like Rusty or Al Amerrick.

They said in two months you could order custom from the big name shapers, but that would be $900. The smaller guys can’t even get blanks any more . . .

Other shops didn’t really care, they had pre black monday prices, but their stock was running low of big name shapers.

Shop that sells blanks or used to. Locked up the blank room. Funny a month ago I was considering getting a blank . . . He laughed and said check in next several months, or a year. He said, seriously, several weeks . . . but he said the big guys will pay more, so they’d get first pick. And he also says Walker is good, but nowhere refined like Clark was . . .

I scored a Merrick at pre black monday price. But if it true that price is driven up . . . I can’t buy boards anymore. Harbour (one of my favourite shapers, well Tim S really) raised his prices $400. I wanted to get one of those. I can’t.