Would it be possible for people to post side on pictures of classic LOG longboards that noseride really well. Trying to catch the rocker flow. It would be great to get an indication of the relation of wide point of planshape to rocker apex.
Im intrigued by the notion of a ‘flipped tail’ versus the ‘spoon suction underside effect’.
One is the total redirection of water flow where the deck is forcing water up therefore tail down (plus water suction under), the second where the suction water on the under surface with smooth flow over the top of the tail.
Trying to decide which one to go with on my next LOG.
Not much water really runs over the deck, not enough to hold down the tail, but the kick tail rocker creates enough drag to pull the tail deeper into the water. I thought the extreme rocker would make a design like this paddle like a brick, but at paddling speed, you are below where one would feel much of this drag. Now when paddling for a wave and you start to miss it, this is where the drag wil stop you dead in your tracks. I have been paddling with about half my board out in the air and still didn’t catch the wave. So, commitment is very much a neccesity when riding a board with kick tail rocker.
I am working with planshapes with WP’s back from centre, noses in the 17" region with full hips in the tail. I am trying to get a really well matched rocker for this planshape with nose riding and traditional riding the goal.
I think I should link the WP to the rocker apex in this design, leaving a very gentle rocker curve to the nose (say with around 3 inch nose rocker) and quite an exaggerated tail flip ( say 5" ) from the WP to the tail.
Rails - 50/50 nose to tail for me. rounder in the middle, eggy in the tail and tail.
I like the idea of the narrow nose for pocket nose riding and the effect this has on the angle of the fin (slightly turning into the wave) which should keep you higher in the pocket - the nose ride where there is air under your nose.
Does this design philosphy sound about right?
If anyone has a rocker pic like this I would be stoked.
Im very influenced by the sorts of traditional boards that Tom Wegener is making.
you don’t want you tail rocker to be smooth from the WP
rather smooth till about the last 24-36 and then kickit
maybe something like a curve to give 3" of tail rocker with smooth flow from the wide point, but then in the last 24-36" put the extra kick in to take what would have been a 3" tail rocker to 5"
Like solstice said look at the Harbor web site
Also look at the 10’1"Y but look at the rocker with the nose and tail reveresed. ie. look in the clark catalog and use the nose numbers for the tail and tail numbers for the nose.
Looks to me like the 10’1"Y kicks at about 24"
just some thoughts
b.t.w. the narrow nose nose rides nicely high on the wave
not that my comment has any relevance or even a place inside of this thread, but latley ive been spending a lot of time in my 50/50 noserider. the other day i took out my more modernized longboard, i guess it’s a “performance” log, and realized that when i ride that thing i spend WAY more time on the nose then on my noserider. the edge in the tail lets me go faster and put myself in the right place more often which = more tip time.
Logboy, now your talking. There has been for so many years no concept of skill involved in noseriding. " I want a 21" NOSERIDER", well they ride even poorer than a much narrower nose. Looking back on old pics of Fain, Dora, Carson, Corky, they all had 15" noses, rode so good on the nose, but somewhere along the way we all became obsessed that a big nose was necessary. This led to the wide point having to be further forward, this results in more mass being forward and causing the board to be even more of a less responsive tool. When I first started shaping for Challenger, I had been putting my wide points at center what did I know? Tinker set me straight right away, explaining how when you stood up you wanted the wide point and weight under your feet. Not all of it out in front of you, the part of the board that was being moved around the most. Nearly all blanks that I shape, I need to redistribute the mass further back, as it is almost a third of the way forward. I have a master on the machine that I did for Robbie Kegal (Creme Surfboards) and it follows this design theory to a T
Jim, now that you popped back in, I’m sure you’ll be blasted with questions…the price of knowledge I guess.
Do you figure the super-wide trend came from the Con Ugly? I’d always assumed so…
I agree that 10’+ noseriders, mid 20’s in weight, poly/poly, should be hippy and with narrower noses than all the Nuheiwa clones. I have a Velzy '63 model (Surfore says for sure you shaped it) that fits this description exactly.
I’ve been messing with EPS & epoxy…currently working on another noserider. 3" nose rocker, 4.25" tail. Not a sandwich - 2# EPS with a 2" wide balsa centeer stringer. Trying to find the magic flex-to-float combination.
I’m 210 lb and have been thinking along the lines - until what I read above - of a Con Ugly outline, but only 3" thick or less. Do you think that thinning down the board would make up for the disadvantages to extreme width that you wrote about above? I want to go thin to keep some flex & to avoid corkiness. Not only (relatively ) thin in the middle, but blade rails, especially on the ends. The only way I thought of to do this is go wide…I’m not a fan of longer, longer, longer.
I’d very much appreciate your comments…as well as anyone else’s. There’s just not all that much design information for longboards with the newer materials.
Resinhead, the classic theory with guns for years was wide point situated ahead of center, longer rail line is water for more drawn out turns, weight ahead to keep nose down in strong off shores. But Dick Brewer started pulling the wide point back towards center to give the rider more curvature under their feet. I have a template that I used for the balsa Brewer guns that I was doing here in California, believe it or not, but the template is perfectly suited for blending the curve on wide point back longboards! Now not many surfers are talented enough to use designs like this to do top to bottom turns at Waimea and Sunset, with, many going for that still classic drawn out bottom turn
I find that it has a lot to do with the conditions that you are planning on noseriding. Nice little walls are perfect for the narrow nosed, wide hipped boards that Jim describes. Also known as “Pocket noseriding” I would say that it is probably the only way it should be done. But for the most part people generally noseride at incorrect times, out on the shoulder, in the flats, or on mushy waves. All these conditions to not provide enough suction in the tail area to support a narrow nosed board, causing the rider to pearl. This is where the wide nosed, wide middle boards come in. The increased planing surface helps the rider noseride through these unsuitable conditions. I also think that because contests rarely have perfect conditions, this would be at least a partial reason why wide boards like the Con, Weber, etc… became popular. -Carl
