I’m gettting ready to do a classic 60’s style 10’6" longboard, and I had a couple questions about glassing with Volan and doing cutlaps. From what I read, it seems like the standard layup is 10oz bottom x 10oz top + 6oz saline. I’d like the laps to show on top and bottom, I’m just looking for tips on how to get it looking right. Here’s the rundown of what I know so far:
I’d mask the deck with a couple layer’s of tape and glass the bottom first
cut the lap with a razor when the resin has kicked enough to stick to the foam, but not fray when you cut it
3 (need help here) Either press the lap into the foam with a roller, or grind/sand it flush with the foam. Im not sure about how do to this without screwing up the foam on the deck…
Repeat the masking/lap cutting procedure for the deck.Again, im not sure how to get the lap from the deck flush with with the glassed bottom. (Should I do the 10oz + 6oz at the same time, or separate?)
Hotcoat (resin amount for big board?)
Sanding
Glosscoat + sanding/polishing
Also wondering about the amount of resin to use… Ive heard that volan will soak up more resin, so how much would be good for a 10’6" board without too much waste? I think this is kind of a bad place to skimp though, going cheap on the resin might ruin the whole project. I thought maybe like 1.5 - 2 quarts per side?
John, For a 10’-6" board with Volan, 2 quarts per side for the lamination will not be enough. Figure at least 2 1/2 qts. or even slightly more. It’s better to have some extra than to be scrambling to mix up some more resin while your board is sitting there starting to gel. (How do I know this, you might ask? aaaaahhhhh been there)
Lay up the 10oz. and 6oz. at the same time .
Cut the lap as normal, then paint some extra hotcoat resin around the lap as a first step when you do the hotcoat. If you get a little sand-thru and see the weave when you’re sanding the hotcoat, don’t worry, the gloss coat will cover and make it disappear. Doug
Thanks Doug! Putting hotcoat resin around the lap edge seems like a great idea, I’ve done a cutlap once before and tried to sand the lap edge flush to the bottom layer of glass. It was pretty tough and I burned through a couple of places. Is it standard procedure to push the lap down into the foam on the deck? Ive seen a guy run a wallpaper roller along the lapline and push it into the foam. The glass was flush with the foam, but the edge seemed a little gnarly…
John, let me add just a few things. I would think real long before I put 10 oz. and a 6 oz on the deck, as well as 10 oz on the bottom. If you use classic foam and 2 layers of 7.5 volan on the top and one on the bottom you will have more then enough weight on a 10’6" board. Remember you want the cut lap to be at least 2 inches I like closer to 3 inches. If you make this board to wide you will not be able to use normal glass and will have to go to wider glass, just a reminder. Also when you lap the deck around to the bottom in your lam coat and let it kick. When you lay up your hotcoat lay a 2 oz eglass over the whole bottom, and up on to the lap about 1/2 inch. Now when you sand down the hot coat you will also sand off most of the 2 oz eglass, but that piece that is laied between the lap and the bottom lay up will stay there. What this does is make the board a lot stronger. Some guys bast that area, but the resin is not strong enough to stop a crack from forming in that area where it is thick. That little laier of 2oz really makes for a stronger board. I hope I have said this clear enough and that it makes since? Good luck and show pics.
use suncure, that way you’ll not run out of resin (as long as you’re laying it on clear) and you have just about all the time you’ll need.
Try get your volan cloth in a lighter weight, why use 10 oz? Not really essential, there’s no good reason to make a 35-pound board when you can make it much lighter.
When you razor cut the first lam, timing is essential of course. But also, make sure you absolutely don’t cut deeper than at all possible, for two reasons. One, If the blade is not dead sharp, it will tear the foam. The tears can be filled with resin from the next lam and not show much, but Two, they will be darker and look like shit on close examination. The razor tends to “load up” with a little of the resin through which you’re cutting, so it might be a good idea to cut one side, then clean the blade with acetone.
When you cut the second lam, be sure not to cut through the first lam. If you cut through the first lam, the board will be very easy to ding at that spot since there will be no continuity of the glass fibers. This makes a sharp razor even more necessary, and a steady hand.
A thick hotcoat near the cut line will be sufficient to sand it smooth. I’ve never found the bit about rolling the cut lap into the foam, or basting, to be necessary. The hot coat doesn’t need to be thick over the entire top or bottom of the board. Good work with a soft pad will take care of it well enough.
Consider your pinstriping skills, I think that pinlines originated as much as for hiding cut lines as for decoration.
Thanks Honolulu! I’d love to use UV, but I dont have a sufficient work area to block out the light. Just a 1 car garage (with a gas water heater too… heh heh). Would 8oz top/bottom with an 8oz deck patch be better? Or 8 top/bottom with an extra 6oz on the deck? I’m doing this board for a really big guy, so Im looking for maximum strength.
About the lap on the deck - so after i glass the bottom, and have razored the cut line, is there a trick to glassing the deck? I’m afraid that if i didnt get the cut line flush with the foam on the deck, I would get little air bubbles around the edge.
I notice this old thread and decided to add something in here…Honolulu was on with tips but I would add that when cutting the lap you can use good grade tape and cut first at the nose and tail. This allow you to roll up the tape so you can cut where the tape ends and the glass starts thereby eliminating any chance of cutting into the foam. You can also PULL while cutting with a sharp blade which reduces the likelihood of cutting into the foam (try this even if you don’t want to roll the tape over for cutting).
Deep cuts into the foam on laps seems to promote cracking there later on. Resin bastes are okay if used judiciously but resin by itself is brittle…it is the cloth that is the reinforcing. A godd auto body file makes lap work far easier and results in a better overall job.
There is a lot of info on this in the archives but if you want the true classic look toss your rail tool and tape it freehand by eye.Old style glassers used wide laps and they actually got wider at the nose and tail.They didn’t use “rail tools”.Cooperfish are the only boards I have seen that are done this way.When you wet the laps flip them up on the board and pour a line of resin down the full length and wet it with th squeegee.It will save a lot of trouble (and resin). rb
No kidding…kinda surprised about people using rail tools. I always tape by eye and can feel the arc I’m pulling. Wide laps for sure, that was the look of the day. As far as my cutting suggestion, you can’t even begn to do that unless you have the good tape, and if you cut it at the wrong time everything slides.
I always use 3m tape.I would do the first tape run with 3/4" and come back and fill with 2".I had one trick (thanks Jim Phillips)where I bent a single edge blade in the middle and used it to cut “sideways” on the lap.Clay Bennett showed me a crazy way to cut laps that went like this…Tape the board off as normal.Come back and lay 2 layers of 1/2" tape along the line and on top of each other.This creates a high ridge.Glass as usual but don’t worry about cutting the lap.Go surfing or get drunk.Come back the next day and use a small grinder to buzz through the glass over the tape line.It leaves a perfect edge.Maybe not so good for production but almost foolproof for a beginner.I was going to show that trick in my video but it never happened.Have fun RB
Howzit DS, I think that one of the requirements for being a glasser in the days of yore was being able to do free hand tape offs. I know that's how I got started, Gary T. who owned Plastic Fantastic put a rail cutter in my hands when I was I asked him to teach me. I told him what do I need this for and then did a free hand tape off and that got me under his tutoring. I have always compared them to training wheels, and any good glasser should free hand tape off. If you can't free then how are you going to do pinlines since you can't use a rail cutter for that. We're old school and that's how it was then.Aloha,Kokua
Howzit Mr. Clean, Don't you just love the bent razor blade trick, I have used it forever. Another way to use it is when I do repairs I trim the edges of the glass patch to blend the glass to the area around the ding. I got a good laugh the first time I showed it to a friend who did repairs and he had never known about it. How's life treating you these days my friend.Aloha, Kokua
Howdy Kokua my old Buddy.I will answer that for all of the people that have asked me the same question.I am OK.I am lucky to be alive.I have about 50% of the horsepower I used to have so I just go along kind of slow.Heart bypass surgery is a miracle deal if you have the right attitude.I came up in a generation of excesses and it will catch up in the end.I still get a heart jump when I smell resin or hear waves cracking.
Cleanlines…that’s a pretty cool trick. when I used to do a lot of opaque layups I doubled the tape but would flip it up like I mentioned prevously then slide the razor along the visible line while cutting the lap. I hadn’t heard of the bent razor trick you and Kokua mentioned!
As far as doing the grinding for a perfect lap, I would think that could be a great thing for doing a taped off tint using UV resin…Kokua, any other tips on that one for tints and UV?
Guys are kinda blown away that I’m glassing again but now that I’ve set up shop and gotten organized and gotten my rhythm going it can be a lot of fun. I used to really enjoy laminating, and I’m back to that feeling again. One of the funny things this time 'round is getting into using the cheapy spreaders versus a Thalco squeegee. I know Greg (Loehr) like them, and his mention got me to try them and made me a convert (lol)…go figure!
Do you remember the molded rail cutters that…I think his name was Rich Paar in Honolulu made…wasn’t that his name. I think he ended up getting escorted off the island back in the late 70’s? Do you remember that (and the molded tool he was offering)?
Speaking of Squeegees.A long time ago I got hold of some rubber type baseboard material and it made great squeegees.It is the stuff they use in commercial buildings.It comes on a roll and they glue it to the wall.You might want to check it out.The built up tape trick is perfect for use with suncure resin.
I haven’t glassed in years.I am getting stoked again.I reckon it’s time to go down to my friend Tuna’s mini factory and ruin one of his boards.He has a cool setup. It’s www.undergroundboardworks.com
Gary Geist (Lucky Lab Brewery in Portland, OR) had a neat razor blade trick… he barely stuck his razor blade through a little puddle (dime size) of epoxy resin and when it cured, he had a built in “shield” that prevented cutting too deep when he trimmed his laps. He made a bunch at a time using left over resin.
I luv that kind of ingenuity. Cleanlines, go for it. I’ll check out your friend’s site. Must be a sister ship to The Surfing Underground that I had from 1980-1990…then reborn today:)
Just my two cents and in defense of Gene..He only used a rail tool when his confidence in the glasser was less than he liked. I have to agree on "Toss the Tool". My eyes are set crooked in my head and I still just eyeball it. Pretty scary but that's just the way it is. Do this long enough and you will be riding to school in the short bus too! There is such a thing as too perfect I think..