clueless...

General Discussion
1

G’day. Hope that all is well. I write with a few questions…I am almost done shaping my first board and am about to jump into glassing. After perusing the Swaylock’s Archives, I have decided upon doing a cloth inlay. One of the postings in the Archives mentions the need to eventually go back over the outline of your inlay with pinlines…This small mentioning sent me on yet another search through the Archives, but this time I had little luck. I have pieced together that pinlines are some sort of line painted (?) onto the board, but do not really understand their purpose–are they simply cosmetic? or do they hold some function related to the integrity of the board?

Also regarding glassing…there are so many different coats–lam coats, hot coats, glass coats. Do these all go one in the same day if using epoxy? Or do you let one cure before applying the next? Same question, but just regarding multiple lam coats using 4 oz cloth. Some article somewhere mentioned the need for fusion of the two cloth weaves, whereas another states it necessary to sand between laying down another laminating coat—Which is true when?

And for any of you out there willing to take a rookie under their wing…I guess that I am a bit overwhelmed with information right now–too many tech tips for a gal just trying to figure out the basics…I think that the hugest help for me would be to see some sort of schedule for when everything needs to happen. Any ideas where I might be able to find one (Besides Glassing 101—sorry no DVD access)?

Thanks everyone…looking forward to enlightenment.

Cheers.

Rachel

2

Good you are shaping your own board.

Don’t do inlays, you are not ready for the headache…running, crooked, framing with pinlines (cosmetic), extra time laminating, and a host of other possible problems.

Lam, hot, gloss, are three completely separate coats.

Lam one side, let cure

Lam other side let cure

Hot one side, let cure

Hot other side, let cure

Sand

Gloss one side, let cure

Gloss other side, let cure

You can lam deck and knee/heel patch at the same time.

First lam, you barely have time to saturate the flats (9 minutes), leaving NO time for flipping up the rails, pouring and squeegeeing, then flippen 'em back down and squeegee.

Mix a slow batch, cool temps, get some help with first lam, unless you want big rail bubbles, incomplete saturation, and a structurally weakened board.

Typical mix of catalyst and resin, mixed well in a bucket, starts to gel in 16 minutes!

A good glasser, with experience, can lam in about 6 minutes total.

3

Aloha Rachel…

First off, what LeeDD said is probably right - doing a cloth/fabric inlay for your first glassing experience is probably a bit much. Not to say it can’t be done, but perhaps better to be done once you’ve shaped a few more boards and are more comfortable with the basics of glassing. The pinline is cosmetic - its main function is to cover up the fuzzy edge of the fabric where you trimmed it. Helps it look neat and clean rather than just that fuzzy edge.

Lam(inating) coat - the first coat of resin in which you apply the fibreglass (laminate it) to your board. This one doesn’t get sanded. In using poly resin it dries sticky.

Hotcoat - second coat of resin; fills in the weave of the glass that you laminated to your board. That is, you should still see the weave of the glass after lamination. If not, you added too much resin and there’s a good chance your glass will ‘float’ on top and end up getting sanded off. Not so good. This one gets sanded. Again, in poly, there is a wax agent that is added that floats to the surface and makes the resin cure hard and sandable.

Gloss coat - Final coat of resin, used to seal the board. Some people do it, others don’t. A bit of a personal preference. Adds a shade more weight, probably not noticable by the novice, allows the board to be brought to a shiny polish. Will assist in your boards lasting longer by giving them a good seal - after sanding, commonly you will see fibers here and there at the surface. These are potential pathways for the water to reach your shaped blank and start its deterioration. Some people use other methods to seal their boards after hotcoat, including but not limited to spray-on products.

Keep in mind that all the steps above were described in relation to the use of poly resin, not epoxy. My experience is currently limited to poly. However, there is a rather good reference in the Resources section (see the bar at the top of the page), and once there look under ‘articles’. I believe it is called something like ‘Epoxy/ EPS primer’. Better yet, here’s the link: http://www.swaylocks.com/resources/detail_page.cgi?ID=1029. Not all of the information is specifically applicable to your questions, but there are some good technique tips in there for you. I haven’t specifically looked for a ‘schedule’ of what to do and when in relation to glassing, but there might be some more info in the Glossary (again, to top bar on the page). [Edit: Just keep scrolling down the list in the Resources/Articles section I sent you from above - for ‘best of Swaylocks’ shaping and glassing tips…]

Hope all that isn’t too confusing and sets you on the right path to start. As far as somebody taking you under their wing, you’ve got a lot of wings to choose from in here. :wink: If you’re looking for someone in your area (guessing Oz, by the g’day intro), there are several posters here from the land down undah, three of which on the top of my mental list are Bert Burger, Hicksy, and the notorious Chipfish. Apologies to those who I neglected to mention. Bert’s the man for epoxy experience over, er, down there. Don’t think he’d be caught using anything else. :wink:

Good luck from up and over a few thousand miles to Hawaii…

aloha

waxfoot

4

R, the other guys covered it well but I want to emphasize a few things…

  1. Use UV cure resin if at all possible, the almost unlimited working time removes the single biggest glassing hassle, that of having only 20 minutes to complete the lamination.

  2. Pinlines are only a decoration, and used to cover lamination cut lines or frayed cloth inlay edges, and so on. They can also be terribly difficult to do well, and I’ve layed on a lot of them with poor edges, too thin, and so on. I really suggest that unless you have someone experienced in laying a traditional resin pinline right there in real time to advise/help you, don’t do it. Of course, you can always take a stab at it and then, if it’s too poor, sand it off.

  3. Again, if at all possible, have someone who is a competent glasser right there with you for at least the full duration of your first board. The direct knowledge transfer is excellent. This board and the archives will allow you to read everthing you’ll need to know, but the physical motions are not described, and the quality control process is best done first person rather than “Gee I wonder if…?”

  4. Suggest using poly resin the first time, cleanup with acetone. I haven’t used epoxy, but one thing is sure: it’s almost twice as expensive. Plus, once it’s mixed, there’s no turning back, you gotta use it or waste it. Not so with UV cure poly. You’ll likely waste a lot of resin the first time, heck even the pros leave a LOT on the floor. Only a few of us cheapskates to boards with “only a few drops lost”. If, again, you have an experienced glasser on hand, this may change.

Hope this helps clarify some side points, if you were in my neighborhood I’d say to bring it over this weekend and we’d have at it. But I get the feeling you’re on the other side of the planet…

5

Rachel, The two main reason for building your own board is 1) build what you want, 2) the pride of having built what you want. In other words, if you want a cloth inlay do it. Sure it more involved and may create complications, but if that is what you want then it may be worth it. Now the question is do you want to keep it simple and increase your odds of approaching perfection, or is it worth making some mistakes or cosmetic flaws inorder to have the look you want. Ex: my first board was a yellow opaque lamination on the bottom with black resin pinlines. Sure it was more work, but it was what I wanted. If I had done colorless laminations and no pinlines my board probably would have had less cosmetic flaws. In my case my cosmetic flaws can only be seen up close, and are more than offset by having desired look I was after.

As for resin, I am a strong believer in epoxy resin. Please don’t let the poly only users talk you out of epoxy because they have not used it. It is easy to use. You can get long work times with epoxy. Not as long as UV-resin but way longer than regular poly resin. If you don’t go epoxy I would suggest UV resin. Extra working time while laminating will save you a lot of head ache.

As for schedule for epoxy… Ideally you want less than 24hrs between each coat (lam/hot/gloss on the same side). Depending on the temperature your working in and the hardner (epoxy system) you use, you should be able to do bottom and deck in the same day, then do the bottom and deck for the next coat the next day. If you can’t get the next coat on within 24hrs it is OK.

Epoxy does cost more, but you will use less. If you think you don’t have enough mixed you can mix more epoxy up during the lamination (hot or gloss) and keep going. This means you don’t need to mix as much reserve.

b.t.w. a lot of mistakes in glassing can be easily fixed.

good luck (and enjoy)