Do any of you guys know if there is a CNC machine in the works out there? I don’t see why machines are so expensive. AutoCad isn’t that expensive, motion controllers are so enxpensive, a computer is under $1,000, and aluminum tubing isn’t an arm and a leg. Why aren’t more tech geeks, producing custom machines whick can read DXF files etc?
I see this is your first post here. If you look around a bit, you will find lots of discussion about the current shaping machines being used out there already.
Mill and extra large translation stages and programmable CNC
$20-25k
AutoCAD: $3-4k
Custom jig for holding surfboard and custom surfboard design software…???
An ASP 3000 would be $50-60k…at a $28 shaping fee per board it would take 2100 boards to pay itself off. Or under 6 months in a well set-up shop.
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Mill and extra large translation stages and programmable CNC
$20-25k
AutoCAD: $3-4k
Custom jig for holding surfboard and custom surfboard design software…???
An ASP 3000 would be $50-60k…at a $28 shaping fee per board it would take 2100 boards to pay itself off. Or under 6 months in a well set-up shop.
Of course, thats if you didn’t have any overhead whatsoever. -Carl
Making a CNC machine is one of those projects that you think will take a fraction of the time and money, until you get knee deep in it, then you realize what you’ve got yourself into. The software follows along similar lines.
We’re often agreeing to features that we think will only take a day or two to write, then two weeks later they’re looking like they’re almost done, then we look closer to see that they’re still bug ridden. Nature of the game.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a lot of fun. That’s just one side, the cost and time side.
Jimmy
Gantry type hobby CNC router:
Stepper motors(x3 100oz for 3 axis new, cheaper for surplus): $300->
3 axis Hobby Stepper controller: $200->
Power supply: Depends. If an old powersupply for a computer will do for each motor it’s practically free.
Computer: Used one, less that $100 as the specs don’t require much CPU power
Router: $50?
Alu/steel frame: ???
Lead screws: ???
Bits and bolts: ???
Stepper driver software: Free
Design software: Can APS3000 output G-Code? If not, the board could still be designed in some CAD program and converted to G-code. If you’re geeky enough you can write it yourself. parametric surface algorithms are fun
My guess is you could build a hobby machine like this for about $1000 if your geeky enough. There are plenty of examples of hobby CNC machines on the net, but they are usually small with high accuracy. A surfboard cutter need less accuracy and is cutting foam, not metal or wood(xcept stringer but that pass could be programmed to cut slower). However, it will still be rather slow cutting. Faster cutting would need bigger motors with more powerful controllers and powersupplies or servo motors with more expensive controllers. You can add another axis and another cutter(or just another motor driven in the oposite direction with another cutter) which will in turn cut down cutting time by half by routing it symetrical about the length axis but then you’re limited to a symetric design.
I would do it if there were more geeks in my neighbourhood that would share the costs.
regards,
Håvard
A small set-up can be gotten commercially for about $10k with Shopbot and Shape3d, but it is silly to compare that to APS 3000. And the more of it you want to build out of second hand parts (and/or design yourself), the cheaper it gets!
http://www.astatue.com/astatue_001.htm
These guys specialize in shaping EPS, but the max length on their machine is a little short.
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A small set-up can be gotten commercially for about $10k with Shopbot and Shape3d, but it is silly to compare that to APS 3000. And the more of it you want to build out of second hand parts (and/or design yourself), the cheaper it gets!
I’m not comparing anything to the APS3000 machine. A homemade machine would be slower, less accurate, harder to set up, etc. Would be a fun project though.
regards,
Håvard
I agree. I work in an environment where we have a team of qualified individuals who are creating a program (non surf board or cad cam related). They have meatings on what commands will benefit the company, they write code, scrap code blah blah…
So, I can imagine how difficult and time consuming it must be to write code for cad cam, especially surfboard design. But still, why are machines so expensive. Do you forsee them coming down in price? Dou you think yours will ever come down in price, or are guys buying it up. About how many machines have you sold in the US?
I know that milling machines aren’t that expensive and they are much more precise and have much more machines parts and gages, and can cut tighter tolerances.
Do you think that the cad cam geeks, guided by a shaper could com up with a shaping machine and software?
Milling machine with CNC retro-fit, $7-8k.
But CNC mills use translation stages with ball threads to minimize play, cost much much more. Generally sub 0.001" accuracy.
For surfboards, where you might think 0.005" accuracy is good enough (1/8th mm), a retro-fit may fit the bill well.
But look, this isn’t the tough part of the problem. The tough part is the software and the jig to hold the board reliably, and/or scanning software.
I mean, can you, using only AutoCAD (another $4k), design a good rocker line? Software could build that in. How about cutting rails? How about using a digital picture of an existing board as the template on one plane of your board model?
I now prepare myself to be amazed at the cleverness displayed by the solutions about to be posted.
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I mean, can you, using only AutoCAD (another $4k), design a good rocker line? Software could build that in. How about cutting rails? How about using a digital picture of an existing board as the template on one plane of your board model?
I was using digital pictures to make templates of boards in a 3D design program long before the feature was in the APS3000 program. In fact, I asked for that feature when I first tested it and I have the emails to prove it. You can make a board design in 3D with a cheap CAD program. However it requires that you learn to use the program. It won’t be as easy and intuative as with APS3000 though, it will take longer(possibly much longer) and you might get flaws you didn’t think of. The APS3000 program is designed to be used by shapers to make boards. That’s the beauty of it. As for accuracy, for a hobby CNC machine to make a surfboard it’s only the vertical axis(or thickness ‘axis’) that require high accuracy. Lengthwise and widthwise, especially if you do cutting passes lengthwise, an accuracy of 1/32" would be plenty. This would most likely improve the cuttinging speed dramatically. However, the hard part is coming up with good jig to hold the board that does not interfere with the cutting tool. Even more so if you were to cut both bottom and deck at the same time. regards, Håvard
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I agree. I work in an environment where we have a team of qualified individuals who are creating a program (non surf board or cad cam related). They have meatings on what commands will benefit the company, they write code, scrap code blah blah…
So, I can imagine how difficult and time consuming it must be to write code for cad cam, especially surfboard design. But still, why are machines so expensive. Do you forsee them coming down in price? Dou you think yours will ever come down in price, or are guys buying it up. About how many machines have you sold in the US?
Right now we can’t make these machines fast enough. But we are happy with our solution to increase manufacturing and meet this demand. It is tough for me to predict what we’ll do with our future price at this stage. Things are moving pretty fast for us these days.
Regarding the machine’s price, much of relates to the high quality of materials, electronics, controller, motors, etc. Miki uses the top stuff from all over the world. We’ve got stuff coming in from the US, Germany, Australia and others. The other big thing here is the application, cutting foam blanks with a wood stringer, into a surfboard. There are many weird problems dealing with cutting foam. Also, surfboards have lots of curves, curves everywhere. All these curves took time on both the software side and the machine design side. Cutting doors is a much easier application.
Blade asks:
Do you think that the cad cam geeks, guided by a shaper could com up with a shaping machine and software?
Sure, essentially that’s what we did.
Blakestah said:
The tough part is the software and the jig to hold the board reliably, and/or scanning software.
I agree fully those are some of the tough parts.
Haavard said:
I was using digital pictures to make templates of boards in a 3D design program long before the feature was in the APS3000 program. In fact, I asked for that feature when I first tested it and I have the emails to prove it.
Yes, both you and Bert Burger had asked for this. We wrote it and with some good feedback from Bert, we’re happy with the result of this feature.
Haavard also said:
However, the hard part is coming up with good jig to hold the board that does not interfere with the cutting tool.
This is very true. Holding the board is tricky. Another tricky problem is making sure that after you let go of it (after it has been cut) it’s shape doesn’t change. Often times you’ve got a different rocker. Then you start getting into work arounds and that becomes somewhat of a guessing game. I’m very pleased with Miki’s solution to that problem.
All of these above issues, Miki can go on for hours about about this stuff. He’s been knee deep in this area for years.
later on
Jimmy