Commercial Surfboard Attrocities

General Discussion
41

First off, I am not a factory board hater.  Most of them are well made by dedicated shapers and glassers.  The low durability is the result of the customers desire to have a light weight, high performance board.  How do I know this? The proof is in the pudding- PEOPLE BUY THEM!!! Rexdog- sorry for your loss but it sounds like you paid a lot for a board that surfed great and failed for many of those same reasons that allowed it to perform so well.  But I regress; he is my commercial surfboard atrocity-

This fall I found myself in VA with a big hurricane swell coming in (Hurricane Bill for you East Coast USAers) and no boards with me.  I tried Craigslist and a few surf forum’s but couldnt find anybody to sell, rent, or loan me one on such short notice.  Finally I came across an add from a surfboard distributor selling new boards for $285.  I talked to the rep and she seemed pretty knowledgeable so I ordered a board from her and picked it up 11pm friday night at her house.  It cost $315 for the board, traction pad, fins, and a leash.  The price was right and I couldnt have asked for better customer service.

That night in my hotel room I got a better look at it.  Outline was nice, rails flowed, sanded finish glass job was clean.  So far so good.  I flip it over.  The boxes were those square FCS knock-offs but I didnt expect much better from the price. I check the dims.  6’6’’ x 18 3/4’'… 3/4" narrower then I wanted but hey, thats what you get for buying a board sight unseen.   

And then I REALLY found out why it was so cheep…

I pushed down on the deck and the glass spider webs as I press a quarter of an inch into the foam… from only a few pounds of pressure.  Ok, maybe it was a weak spot.  Nope, same result everywhere I try.  Damn.  But my path was set so I applied he traction pad, screwed in the fins, and waxed her up.

I arrived at the beach around 6am, pulled the board out of the truck, and flopped it onto the grass.  POP! What the hell was that!  Did a rock or small branch punch through the bottom?  Nope… the damn right fin shaped off at the box.  I think the stream of profanity that flowed out of my mouth woke the neighbors a block away.  I surfed for a few hours until the surf shops opened up (try going right without a right fin- it makes the bottom turns a bit tricky) and bought a new set of FCS for $85… about a quarter of what I paid for the whole board.

I surfed the board that weekend and the next, about 15 hours of surfing in chest to slightly overhead waves.  All said and done the board surfed OK… it was too narrow (for me at least) and difficult to control.  The board is covered in spider webs and heel dents, the traction pad is falling off, and of course that fin snapped off.  

 

The lesson to be learned- do not buy, or let others buy, a Kane Surfboard or anything produced by Mike Dolsey.

42

bummer.

 

This story is just a bad case of terrible luck…

I think this was the second session my friend had.  Back in high school we used to skate to the beach.  So we were skating along and came to a really gravely patch.  As i remember it, my friend had to move cause a little kid ran next to him or something like that.  Anyway, sudden and sharp turns on gravel are no good, especially with one good arm and a surfboard under the other.  His board hit a rather large pebble, the board stopped he kept going.  He landed nose first, not on his face, but his board.  His board was pretty much destroyed.  This is one of the few times i have ever heard him really yell.

43

Hey Silly/Paul how come you hate big name surfboard labels so much?  There is no malice in my question at all just wondering as you quite regularly have poor opinions of them.  I’m sure a lot of their design elements have been ‘borrowed’ by you in some way on your path as a surfboard builder.  So whats your issue with them?

44

Rob, I expect you are right, technique and ability is more important, but someone like me is never going to power surf no matter what. The heavy board is absolutely unacceptable to me now I have experienced light - I wouldn’t be prepared to buy a 3.5 kg HPSB it needs to be closer to 2.5kg. For twitchy rail to rail AKA the double pump light boards rule. For flicking off the top with less than perfect technique light boards rule. I know sandwich resists dents, but Silverbak said it on this thread - it all snaps! so I will accept a weaker board to get light.

oh yes I am guilty of being influenced by the media, thats part of the enjoyment for me - I don’t suffer from tall poppy syndrome. But the bottom line is the board has to feel good for me to accept it too.

actually I’m with you there, I don’t really mind what my boards look like and if a brown resin was superior I would happily buy a commercial product made from it.

45

reverb that is some insane surfing man. pretty light glass job on surfblanks orange , a lot of waves . i also reinforce the tail are with extra glass around the edges. what did the board weigh do you know? i imagine it would have been about 2. 7 kg or 5.7 pounds a very light board for solid surf like you are showing. that board presents great value imo.

we had two out at a doh reef break today surfed for 5 hours. my friend is riding a 2 year old compsand i built him a 7 6 and i was riding a new ixps blank 6 3 . both boards go great . the 76 compsand was snapped one day and has been repaired. he commented today the board is still a magic board and has heaps of life in . like new…we worked out it he has had over 2000 qaulity solid waves on it.

 

marsh i have nothing against factorys other then the factory mentality. ive worked in factorys as a jeweller and they were all dicks with no lives, very boring and droll existence .apathetic attitudes and shortcuts.i made an observation on futures boxes and light thin boards. i seen that snap tail on quite a few times on boards with futures.i feel the futures is a poor design compared to say fcs fusion or 4wfs. and its likely sand through on the rail.

 

46

what I meant was that I expect floaters and other move can be done well on heavy boards too, but I disagree that the super-light board killed power surfing - the modern elite surfer on a tri-fin chip is throwing buckets more than the pre-chip era. Some of them are burying close to the full length of their board up to the stringer in cutties.

47
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I was thinking about this the other day… I think today’s super light boards, particularly with their concaved bottoms, have taken a lot of smoothess out of surfing. That “twitchy” type of ride you mentioned is what I’m talking about. If you watch the nose of a board, and it it could be Kelly or whoever, at the highest possible level of surfing today, the nose of the board does not trace out smooth lines through space. It jitters. Sometimes it’s intentional… those little pumps and tweaks for speed. But sometimes it’s just because modern boards are so hyper refined for manuvers that the ride between the manuvers lacks the smoothness that slighly heavier boards had/have. And that’s acceptable, and a matter of degree depending upon, I think, how much concave, how light, how thin… Watch the line the nose traces out just trimming in the barrel, or on a bottom turn, when the board and fins are flexing like mad. That loss of smoothness is a trade-off for the ultra responsiveness of today’s modern boards.

49

yes NJ, I know what you are talking about - you are talking about the twitch known as the double pump - from a side view on a vid it sometimes looks like tapping the nose up and down and I think sometimes the pros boards do chatter sometimes but I discovered that it is extremely quick rail to railing or more precisely a rail to flat. http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/hard-numbers-flex-demystify-flex-patterns?page=1#comment-1350157 I’ve managed to find some youtube vid which shows the pros more at a head on angle and it confirms that this is whats going on.

its not a power move and the return phase is very light footed, but what it does is get the modern elite surfer travelling faster than ever before the big pump. The result is that they come out of the big pump faster than the smooth surfers of decades gone by. They then blast the lip harder than ever and thats power.

for priming the big pump with some twitchy double pumps the light single concave chip rules.

 

50

Paul, too bad about your experience as a jewlery factory guy.  Not what surfboard factories are like at all.  I always got to work as much or as little as the surf would require.  I always got on with my fellow workers and had awesome times with all of them. We were the guys we worked with and surfed with every day.  We were absolutely passionate about the boards we built and would strive at every station to make every board perfect.  There were never any apathetic attitudes and we never took shortcuts … EVER. No one in the factory was ever considered to be any more important than anyone else.  Rub out guys got the same respect that shapers did because it was all about the finished product. Team effort.  It was never a droll existance at all and I look back to those days very fondly. We’d work our butts off in summer and then we’d get plane tickets and travel and surf in the winter. Or a hurricane would come and we’d all take off and surf Hatteras, the whole crew.

BTW I worked in many factories, probably a dozen, and every one was similar. FL, CA, Aus and HI. Bottom line, you gotta love what your doing and we all did. 

51

That sounds nice Greg. Like minded people working together. It’s too bad we’re losing that kind of industry. If I was 20 and starting all over I’d love to do that, but I wonder how many opportunities are left for a young surfer wanting to work in the board building industry nowadays?

52

Great post, Greg. Most factories I've been around are like that also. Ya gotta get the work done, but the camadarie, factory humor, and surf time make it seem a little easier. I worked with some demanding (in terms of quality) guys, but it's how you raise the level of your game.

On one of my 2-week, 100 board trips up to the outer banks, WRV owner Les Shaw actually came in and ''closed'' a 14 employee factory when the surf was firing. Since I was on a tight schedule, he actually had to order me out of the building. He told me to ''get the hell in the water'. Glad he did, got some pits that afternoon.

Doug Wright once talked me into bailing out 15 minutes after we got to work in order to go get on his boat, blast 25 miles down the lagoon at 65 knots, and get dropped off in the line-up at Monster Hole. His non-surfing friend who rode with us was supposed to come back and get us in 3 hrs; but he went across the river to a bar and came back drunk as a skunk, 5 1/2 hrs later.  I thought Doug was going to kick his ass.

Gordon Clark had the ''6 foot rule'' at the foam plant for years; if it's 6 foot, leave if you want.

What other line of business is there where you can get away with this shit??

53

Monster Hole was always mandatory factory closure conditions.  Used to drive down to Palm Beach to work for JP.  Many days I had to drive over the inlet bridge and then call JP with, Aaaa … like hey man, it’s really good.  I’ll be in later.  Always cracked me up that the guys we worked for were as surf crazed as we were.  How about Lewis Graves … "Lewis, we have orders, I’ve gotta get some work done.  “Yea but Scotty just called and the jetty is 6’ … come on you can work later.”  This is the friggen boss gettin me to play hooky on HIM!! 

How many swells do you think Sammy’s missed over the years.  His Mom will call when he’s surfing and I have to lie to her.  Sam dare … (she’s Thai with a thick accent) aaaaa no he’s not here right now.  Why he not work!!  Oh he’s aaaa working …aaaa I sent him on some aaaaa erands aaa yea erands …  I don’t think she buys it. 

Trips to Hatteras were always fun too.  We had it sussed.  You leave Thusday afternoon at about 4pm, drive up to about the NC state line, spend the night there, get up next morning at 6am and your at the lighthouse by noon.  Surf all afternoon on Friday, all day Saturday and till about 1pm Sunday and then drive home, get there about 1am.  Three days of waves and you only blew off Friday.  Left a note on the door … “Due to unmitgating circumstances we will be closed friday.  Sorry see you Monday.”

But Ocean Ave was always the king factory of the bailout.  Two blocks from the beach … WTF could we do.  10 - 20 surf checks a day, inlet 20 minutes away, even hot showers in the back of the place.  Working there was hard.

54

mr J,

 

your comments are very thoughtful, and I respect that.

 

However, i think it is hard to say that todays riders are throwing buckets is the sole result of weight.

I guess I should have said that because a board isn’t light, it doesn’t mean you can’t rip on it with the right technique. And what is heavy? What i think is heavy is probably HEAVY to someone else. Then again I make some super light XPS board for myself and love them too. To be hung up on weight is like saying sanded finish is faster than a polish…oh no, ive done it again…

What really fired me up on rexdog’s comment was the expectation that the board wouldn’t last. And it was nothing personal, but as consumers, if you we accept planned obsolesence, what’s what we’re going to get…sometimes sooner than expected

 

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I should also say that what you guys are talking about as factory life is correct, most of the time, and the way it should be.

I suspect that any sub-par factories are well known, and avoided. I have also worked in factories in CA, Brazil, UK etc… Some more professional than others. Most were like you are describing, some not so…just saying it is the luck of the draw when the consumer buys their board.

At the end of the day, none of us starting making boards to do it badly, and it is a bummer when one goes wrong. All I’m saying is that if the buying public accepts failures, or expects them, they will happen. If and that the media feeds that, we’re screwed…

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"All I'm saying is that if the buying public accepts failures, or expects them, they will happen. If and that the media feeds that, we're screwed..."

HAHA - It's become a badge of honor to break your board.  The easier they are to break, the better people seem to like it.

The magazines love to print stuff about Joe Surf Star and his claim to have broken 10 boards this year. 

Yeah, but Jack Surf Star broke 20.  He must be more 'CORE.'

One the most brilliant marketing twists I've seen in years....  Push the ultra light high performance angle coupled with stories of surf star's broken boards and you simply end up selling more boards.  Fuck the consumer, it's a 'win-win' situation for the manufacturers and the magazines. 

57

You get what you pay for.  You want a better surfboard....learn how to make one.   Time is money, and a good surfboard takes time.   There's a reason the industry hasn't embraced the new technology......It takes more time than the standard PUPE. 

Yes we are backyard hacks...but we can make boards that are lighter, stronger, and cosmetically superior to most of the junk out there.  We work for fortune 100 company during our day jobs, and understand sales, marketing, and customer service as well as anybody on the planet. I'm not preaching here, but let's not discount the backyard hack....you have no idea what we can produce when we want too.

 

58

...you're just saying that because you build bullet-proof boards LOL!

59

Humm, where to begin.  First of all, of course the dick measuring thing was not serious.  But when I hear comments like “I can make a lighter more high performance surfboard than you” thats what I think of. 

And thank you, I have been having a great time at the factory. I built a few boards for some hot young surfer from padang, surfed a secluded overhead reef with just a few guys from the shop and even got a few tips from one of the heavy hitters in the industry.  A good week so far I think. 

You know Silly, you said that you had no knowledge of what it was to be a professional board builder, nor did you want to.  That is a bit funny because you parade around here giving highlly opinionated “advice” and at the same time rail the people (collectively) who developed the same techniques and design aspects that you use in every board you build.  That disrespect is what I have a hard time tolerating.  I have nothing against the backyard hobbyist’s.  I have the upmost respect for anyone who is enough of a free thinker to make their own equipment and try different designs.  We all started there, some have just been lucky enough to be given an opportunity to make a career out of it.  I know you all have very marketable skills in many other areas other than surfboards but I dont come to your office and tell you that you that your marketing pitch or ad campaign is all wrong and you don’t have a clue as to how to do your job.  And if I did damn sure I could expect to piss someone off. 

I’m not claiming to be an expert in the industry either.  I’ve been around a few years, I’ve shaped a few hundred boards and glassed a few thousand more but I know enough to know that I’ve got a lot more to learn.  The arrogant attitude I hear so frequently (displayed in this thread as mentioned above) on sways is the same attitude that leads to the sense of entitelment so prevalent at many surfspots.  Shit, you know more than any pro shmoe board builder so why not paddle out to [insert surfspot here] and take every wave with no sense of lineup rotation because hey, you’re THAT good.

 

Royal, you said 6 quidd for a sand job?  Thats $12 in the most favorable exchange rates, no wonder you were having trouble getting decent sanders, they all must have been mal-nourished.  Sneeking off into the parking lot to eat their dog food for lunch because it’s all they could afford.  The sander at the factory gets paid a base of $20 for a sub seven foot board.  Start adding on wings, channels, grab rails and glass-on fins and your looking at pretty good pay.  I know that nobody at the shop where I work would put our name on a product that they were not sure was built with the most integrety possible, and we make a decent living doing it.  Sure, there may be a few shops around that don’t operate to the same standards but the market will take care of them, and  dont let one apple spoil the whole bunch.  At least show the same respect you would hope one would show you when discussing how to do your job, because like someone said above; ego’s are at stake here, and ego’s are fragile things.

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Hi SwayKook

How much for a finished board from your factory ?

lets say:
6’4 shortboard, sanded finish, small logos, 2-3 colour spray job, fcs plugs, glassed 2x4oz 1x4oz

and where are you based?