Composite Board Repair - 1

General Discussion
1

At some stage somebody somewhere is going to confront a soaked ding in a composite or EPS core board.

 

I got the call yesterday :- “Ummm…my board has a hole in it which is blubbering water. What do I do?”

 

Inevitable…

 

So this is intended as a resource for riders of mine and other composite boards, sellers and ding repairers anywhere. 

 

This will kick-start my long-intended extensive composite board repair manual. There are a few select tips for repairing a composite board, and drying out the ding is one of them.

 

Such a manual may already exist…apologies, I have’nt looked, so I’ll do this my way.

 

And for you who know-it-all, please appreciate that I’m trying to put this in terms that will reassure people already on or considering a composite/EPS core board.

 

I wondered how would be best to explain the way to dry a soaked ding quicker than just sunshine, and I did’nt actually have a damaged board on hand, so I belted a hole in the tail of one of my boards

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/hammer_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

 

 

I carry a hammer everywhere I go!

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/driver_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

This is FUN!

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/damage.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

 

 

A convincing bit of “collateral damage” in a battle with the rocks…

2

This board may become the crash-test dummy for a range of ding examples…I’ll vent some destructive urges.

 

I left it standing in a bucket of water overnight.

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/bucket_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You experience first-hand the Achilles heel of the composite sandwich/EPS foam core board...

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/drip_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

 

 

It’s astounding to watch…that water just keeps coming like the bleeding heart o’ Jesus…

 

 

 

 

Yes, these boards are harder to ding, but rocks are rocks...and if you do get through the tough outer skin there's that vulnerable lily-white core which can absorb water.

 

I've heard the screams from here! It is a daunting thing...just defies sensibility, the idea of a board with water in it.

 

But I've seen it all and repaired some absolute shockers, and I don't get fazed...my task is to make it easier for you to get back in the water after a deep ding.

 

There are consolations for the water absorbsion thing:-

 

Firstly, as easily as it got in, you can get it out again. And, even if you never get all the water out, it will not degrade the foam.

 

Polyurethane (" Normal " board foam") also absorbs water, just much more slowly...its much more difficult to get water out again, and the foam starts breaking down the moment its wet. I recently had to console the owner of a beautiful Robert August Longboard, whose pigment glass job disguised the cancer of a crumbling water-logged blank due to months of surfing with a foot-area delamination. Despite being opened up and left in the loft for 6 more months to dry, this board was sadly rendered a write-off. The cause is plain neglect.

 

Whatever construction your board is, get your dings fixed pronto!

 

You may have an old polyurethane board with nasty mushy brown foam around what was just a small crack...EPS won't do this. Imagine a beanbag stuffed to bursting with little foam beads and thats what you have in an EPS board, basically. The beads don't take in water, but the gaps between them do. With Polyurethane its the other way around...the cells get water inside them. So with EPS, the water can drain out again.

 

You definately don't want to try just flopping a mix of resin over the wet ding...

Whether you dare try to fix dings yourself, or pass this information on to your trusted regular ding guy, the damage will have to be dry before commencing the actual repair.

 

I want to fix my self-inflicted ding in the most basic way, as if in a non-professional context as a means to reassure you who are to embark on a Indo boat trip.

 

(Hint, you want to add Araldite to your travel ding repair kit...)

 

SO...

 

What you need is :-

 

Warmth

Gravity

Pressure

Time...

 

Warmth – You can watch the water bubble out the hole when you put the board in the sun!

 

The cause of this is the very same reason the board needs that little black vent in the deck...Because the warmth causes the air in the foam to expand, the water is squeezed back towards any holes. If this heat is too great and the expansion has nowhere to go, you can literally pop the skins off the foam. This is why as a general rule its not smart to leave a board in a car with windows closed in the sun.

 

You will need to close the vent…either a manual-closing one or goretex.

 

If you have a Goretex vent, stuff the little black vent with blu-tack. DO not use board wax as you may permanently foul the goretex.

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/blutack_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

 The pressure has to go out another way, and in doing so the water is forced back out the closest hole. (Either the ding or another hole you drill in it...more on that later.)

 

Gravity - Try to have the board positioned in such a way as to allow the water to drain towards the ding hole. Thats a no-brainer...

 

Pressure - It's possible to hasten the effect of the warmth, using a vacuum cleaner. These photos will help explain, but in short, by taping a bag over the ding area and then attaching a vacuum cleaner, you can speed-dry the core.

 

Requirements are –

 

Piece of common clear plastic sheet

Section of fabric rag

Packaging tape

Household Vacuum cleaner

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/equipment.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3

Now we are converting from reliance on sunshine only to vacuum, so we want to maximise airflow into the core by opening the vent or removing the blutack from over the goretex version.

 

Stuff your rag into the vacuum nozzle, Molotov Cocktail stylee...

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/rag.jpg[/IMG]

The rag helps prevent the plastic from sealing off the vac nozzle by being sucked in, and also stops water being drawn into the machine.

Tape the plastic over a generous section of the board, allowing a pleat through which you will insert the vac nozzle with rag. Be sure to have a section of rag directly over the ding-hole.

Seal off around the Vac handle, but don't cover the Baffle vent on the vac handle. This closable hole in the vac handle can be used to reduce the strain on the motor. Even with this baffle vent open, you will effectively draw water out of the board.

TURN IT ON!

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/vac_one.jpg[/IMG]

I don't want to rely solely on the vacuum, so the board is in a dark coloured boardbag to make the most of puny Victorian Springtime warmth...

Don't leave the vac on long enough to burn it out...your wife won't apreciate it. If you happen to have a vac-bag pump its too easy.

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/wet.jpg[/IMG]

Here's the damp rag after 10 mins.

If you  lack access to a vacuum cleaner, you will need more of the other three - Warmth, Gravity and Time. Theres no shortcuts with this drying process. Try telling that to $%^ and @#$ whose favourite board is needed for a pro event the next day...

 

So I'm going to alternate on-off with the vac in the sunshine over the course of a couple of days.

 

Even after the ding has apparently stopped dribbling, you need to dry any residual moisture. You can cut out some of the shattered glass and apply some local area warmth with a hair-dryer. Be careful, don't hold it too close for too long.

 

OK...

 

Next chapter...

 

The actual repair. If you're confident and competent, you may want to take this on...Otherwise go to your friendly neighbourhood Ding dude. It helps if he's done epoxy before, but with the tips I'm going to share, not essential. If he's experienced with Surftech repairs, you're winning.

 

Later with more...

 

Josh

www.joshdowlingshape.com

 

 

 

 

4

was wondering if you weighed the board first, then you can know what percentage of water is left

i find there is a couple of grams that never come out

also its best to leave the vent open when you attach a vacuum to dings as you have air flow though the board which really speeds the process up

4 hours on a vac pump with water trap will get 95% of it

5

oops...double post.

 

 

6

Hey Silly,

 

You're right...correction, IF you have a vac going on, there's flow-through via an open vent.

But if relying on sun only, the vent's gotta be blocked, for the reason stated... 

So, assuming I'm simulating the non-ideal conditions here, that being no warmy box and no proper vac pump, when we alternate between sun and vac we also alternate open and shut vent.

Josh

www.joshdowlingshape.com

 

 

 

7

hi josh and silly, i did some repairs with my vacuum (350,-euros) pump but stoped. even with a trap humidity that got inside the excenter part caused corrosion and the carbon slices got stuck.  i´m looking now for an old fridge pump for repairs.

salu2

uzzi

http://www.myspace.com/klubasurfboard

8

An admirable undertaking, this thread. Can't wait for the exciting conclusion.

Will the water come out? Will Josh and his hammer have a go at some other inanimate objects? Will he be able to match the paint? Will the board live happily everafter?

Seriously, we advise our customers to: 1) get the hell out of the water if you get a ding, and 2) keep some 2-part epoxy putty in your car so you can fix (if you follow  #1) and be back in the water in 20 minutes.

If you don't or can't get out of the water quickly, then read this thread.

9

 

At the boat builder I worked for that tool was known as, “The Persuader”  as in, when something doesn’t fit, bring out the Persuader. Can’t get that bolt loose?  The Persuader.

Speed, you like like you’re about to do some serious persuading there!

10

I think it’s commendable to speedys skill and constrcution that he couldn’t find a board of his own that was damaged and a little painfull as a viewer to watch a piece of art be deliberately hacked into.

11

Hey Uzzi

I had a similar problem with vac pump and water trap. The water vapourised and went through the trap and into the vac gauge causing it to leak the fluid inside. No damage done thankfully

To be honest, the only way I've gotten alot of water (any more than 50grams) out quickly is to take out a balsa panel near the ding and leave it in a warm area for a few days.

But some variations here to try out - next time I have to I will try in a post cure oven with the board on an angle heat and gravity.

Karl

12

Hi Uzzi

My experience with fridge pumps leads me to believe that this will not work.  The technique is using the flow of air through the board to remove the water - I have found that the fridge compressors can't handle a constant flow (and don't actually flow a very high volume), they need to pull full vacuum and then do very little work after that.  A fridge compressor running against very limited resistance will have a very limited life - probably not even one long enough to dry out a single board.

Maybe a cheap wet/dry shop vac would be better?

Thanks for posting this Josh.

Cheers

Buter

13

After a morning of further suckee-suckee and sunshine, I deemed the ding dry.

Remember:- I have opted to use absolutely no specialist ding repair equipment here...especially not digital scales. I’m thinking of a guy in a hut at Puerto-Escondito, or even on a boat...

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/banned_one.jpg[/IMG]

The Sander is  Banned...so for me this seems like scrubbing the mess-hall floor with a toothbrush...

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/trim_one-2.jpg[/IMG]

 

Use a cutter to trim away shardy glass and pressed-in skin material. Make the hole neat with no overhanging edges.

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/two_part_one-1.jpg[/IMG]

 

5 minute Epoxy – The one pictured is by a composites supplier, but an equivalent can be found even in the supermarket. A common brand-name is “Araldite”.

 

This stuff is for SEALING THE EPS only. Its expensive, and gets HOT...so DO NOT think about filling the entire hole with it!

 

If you miss this bit and go ahead putting the polyester resin straight onto the EPS, YOU ARE FERKED!

Never forget this.

 

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/blobs_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

Mix two equal parts of the 5min...Be absolutely sure you have’nt done two blobs of the same one. They are a slightly different colour.

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/poke_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

Poke the mix around in the ding-holes, push it in with a stick and your finger. Make sure it gets into any crevices and covers the EPS completely, but do not allow it to pool thickly. Too much puddle and it gets hot. Hot is not good.

 

As the 5min begins to go rubbery, use your finger to smear any glossy surface you can get to. This means  the next mix has grip on the 5min...simply put, shiny is slippery.

There is no need to let the 5 min go completely hard before continuing.

 

Next we are going to use...gasp...Sun cure polyester resin. Again, we are simulating the most basic conditions...no tubs of epoxy, no scales, no fancy-schmancy professional poofontery...

 

The Ideal way to do this is for another time and place.

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/filler.jpg[/IMG]

 

Take a small amount of your sun cure resin in a cup. It needs to be thickened with a filler to get a paste-like consistencey. There are a number of ways to do this, Q-cell, “Cabosil” or PU dust from the floor of a shaping room, but for our hero the intrepid surf-traveller, we are using TALC...

 

Talcum powder is available all over the place...and it happens to be the ingredient in car body filler also. Hmmm...car body filler...No...

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/stir_one-1.jpg[/IMG]

 

Mix the powder into the resin. Now, because the resin just became no longer clear, the sun-curing will not happen down deep in the thick mix...So...we need catalyst. The combination when put in the sun goes hard nice ‘n quick...

 

You can of course use standard catalysed resin, but we’re, like, in a hurry now after waiting two damn days while the core dried...

 

The uninitiated ask me – “How much? 1%, 2%?”

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/this_much_one-1.jpg[/IMG]

 

I’ve been doing this since I was 9...I say...ummm, this much...

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/spread_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

Mix it all in thoroughly, then smear the mix into the holes. Get it right in there and be sure to leave the dollop higher than the board surface level.

 

Allow it to go hard...but not super-hard.

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/surform_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

Super-hard is more difficult to surform down. NO SANDER!

 

Surform carefully so as not to take the filler to under level with the board surface. There needs to be a little left for neatening it up with 60grit sandpaper on a block.

 

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/60grit_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/prep_60.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

With the filler blocked flat, “feather” the edges in without the block...you want to expose some of the original fibreglass, allowing a new layer to be blended in.

 

Next we add new fibreglass to replace the lost strength...I’m using two layers of 4oz here...offcuts of this are found in any lamination shop, (Ask the grumpy man nicely...or maybe it came in your ding repair kit)

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/offcuts_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brush some on the bare area first, then add the fibreglass and wet it out. Pat the resin down with the brush and check for air bubbles.

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/cloth_wetout_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

Out in the sun again. This time also, you can surform it back more easily when its not absolutely rock-hard. If the edges of the glass fray and go white when you surform, its still too soft!

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/surform_start-1.jpg[/IMG]

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/surform_glass_done-1.jpg[/IMG]

 

Again with the Surform, leave the edges a tiny bit raised for blocking with 60grit. After surforming, allow the sun to harden the resin fully, because sanding is more effective...the edges of your new glass blend with the original board surface better. The point to stop sanding is easily identified along this join line.

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/sixty_grit_done-1.jpg[/IMG]

 

60 grit is a good “tooth” for the filler coat. Hopefully your travel repair resin has “wax in styrene” added already...this makes the following coat easier to finish off cleanly.

 

In my case the resin needs wax-in-styrene added...a “dribbleworth”. (Its metric for you old-timers...)

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/filler_brushed.jpg[/IMG]

 

Brush the filler coat over the sanded area, stopping where yor scratches stop.

 

Let this cure

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/120_block.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/240_grit.jpg[/IMG]

 

Block down with 120, then 240.

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/ooh.jpg[/IMG]

 

Oooh nice...

 

Now you can go surfing with your healed battlescars. Girls like men with scars.

 

But paint...OK...now we step out of the amateur zone...because colour matching is a skill, let alone if you ding my airbrush!

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/paints_one-1.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/colour_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

This one is raw  Klegicell...its a dull orange, so colour match is a little yellow and red with drips of white and black to dull it.

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/touch_up_one-1.jpg[/IMG]

 

Spray touch-up...

 

Then “Speed Finish”, the typical matt acrylic board finish (The original finish on this one is unbuffed 2part polyurethane. ) There is a special trick which allows you to buff “speed-finish “into glossy 2pack, but I don’t need that here...

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/wet_rub_one-1.jpg[/IMG]

 

Lastly after the laquer is dry, a rub wit a blunt 800 wet n' dry...

 

[IMG]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/joshdowlingshape/Ding/next_one.jpg[/IMG]

 

Hmmm...what'll I damage next?

 

X

 

 

 

14

hey josh

maybe some rail damage, a common problem too

or…

the rocks [persuader] could also meet a fin along the line?

something low tech that involves a lot of tape?

yeah, courageous on you

 

 

15

Could you do this to one of your boards and show us how you’d fix it?

16

Ntce work with the tutorial.  I have found that cutting the loose glass, and damaged foam, before the drying process exposes more of the foam for a (hopefully) quicker dry time. 

 

Sickdog

17

…hello Speedneedle,

not to burst the ballon, but what s the difference with a normal ding repair in an EPS normal lam board? or even with a PU board except the epoxy barrier…

 

also, at least in the pict the color match seems not too much…

 

 

18

Hey Reverb,

No difference in this case...There are other exotic varieties of ding which are exclusive to composites...such which may need replacement of sections of skin or timber rail...

Work in progress.

 

Josh

 

 

19

Not quite finished josh. Send it to me and i'll evaluate the repair over a 3 month period..... he he. Great thread mate. Top work.