i watched blaks vids
cant say that it looks really big
most of the guys look a little over guned to me
weight of the board
even one kg diff does not make the diff people claim
design makes far more diff
a light pu will feel soft and mushie compared to a light compsand
It sounds like you are making a board for Mavs.
You will be the test case so go with a shape (outline),fin placement, and fin set that you feel comfortable in Pu and then take a bit of thickness out of the middle and a bit more out of the rails. If you are currently using 1lb eps you may want to stay with it and get your desired weight with your glassing schedule.
If using 1 lb you will need to address the added stresses placed on your board when loaded ( Flex) Bert used a few techniques to address these ( springers, sandwich thickness, wood selection etc). So read up and give it a go and let us know what you think. You are breaking new ground here.
My replacement 7’2" Balsa compsand mini gun vs my Pu of similar outline
5.5 lbs vs 7.5 lbs
2.25 in thick 2" in middle of concave deck vs 2.65
19" width vs 18.75
2.25 tail rocker vs 2.65
6.25 nose rocker vs 6
Paddles better surfs way better
have fun
Christian
i watched blaks vidscant say that it looks really big
most of the guys look a little over guned to me
that’s what everyone says
just before
they paddle out for the first time
then they come back in
and ask for more board
Thanks for all the replies!
At OB foam is your friend, most of the time you can’t get past The Moat( The zone between the shore pound and the outer bar)with out a board that floats your body out of the water.The water will swirl you around in circles unless you are on top of it.This is a different sport than a big reef break.You have to navigate the shore pound,then get in a rip,and hold your ground(breath-breath-swim-meditation) until you can see a gap.Then you have to sprint the gap.Once you make it to the out side then you have to take a 3-4 set waves on the head.If you still have a board and leash at this point then you can try to paddle back to the peak where you started to paddle out.The 80 miles of bay moving in and out of the gate makes for a good N-S currant also.
This is what I rode today 9’4" 41/4" thick LB gun.I broke my leash string on my first wave.Some one called 911 and I met the fire DPT while tying on my spare string on the beach.After my second 1/2 hr paddle out I got glassy no one out off shore 8-9ft waves for two hours.Nice!!Every one else went to MAV’s.
Thick for paddling.
The weight I like at OB is 18-20lbs after that it gets hard to man handle your board for hrs.
At MAV’s you need 22-24lbs.One day the spit from the tube hit me and I got launched 20ft out on the face of the wave.On my heavier boards I can hold on.One year I broke all my guns and gave my 24lb 8’6"15"N 21"W 12&1/2"T longboard a go at MAV’s.As Jeff Clark said when he picked up my board(This would not be my first choice).Jeff has used lead weights in the tail to make boards heavier.I made 12 waves on it at Mavericks.After you decide to go on a big one and break free it is 90% mental and 50% luck.HEEE HEE
I had no problems with 1LB foam.
The only Paulownia I could find locally was live trees.
I have 8 Agave stems I harvested years ago.
Bamboo is easy to get here.
I have tried rail type A double over lap.But I read Burt’s suggestion in the (Neutral Axis thread) of strength through flex, rail type C only top skin only overlaps.
Crafty how much flex does bamboo rails give?
More twang than balsa, stiffer?
One inch to inch & 3/4 rails tapered at the ends. Adding more wood is stronger than adding more glass on the rails?
On the Firewire board I looked at the rails were much thicker in the middle.
DanB a springer for a longer board = good?
I am thinking 1/8 top skin 4oz+6oz & 4oz under with two epoxy-DNA seal coats and 3/32 bottom skins with 4oz+4oz glass.
I am going to make a board out of the (9’9"A) PU Clark gun blank at the same time so this will be interesting…
I am in the research mode right now so this may take a while.
Thanks,
Ian
DanB a springer for a longer board = good?
It depends on the wave and the surfer. Bert uses it for arial type moves (not sure about his bigwave boards), but I would think that it would help. I no longer use springers because my waves and ability don’t benifit from what they offer and the minuses effected my fun. Everything is a trade off.
Bamboo rails - I think bad. You should be thinking red cedar
1 lb foam = good. The reason is you said that you are trying to gain float. I bet you could go 1/2" thinner with your same float you are use to. I’ve been surfing a board made with 2 lb foam recently and decided that its not for me.
i gotta say this suggestion of christians sounds more feasible to me!
i think using a little more width on the rail wood or increase its density with something like cedar
and make your bottom and top skin more even thicknesses
there is no point making it the bottom thinner
the board is most like to fail on the bottom so leave it at at least 3mm
i have an 8 ft compsand at just under 2 1/2 with a .75 core and 3mm skins and it feels like its too overbuilt
if i build a 9ft performance mal it will be no thicker than this
Interesting stuff there man…you have giant huevos or what?!
Here’s the thing Lav…one of the things about strength to weight is the ability to minimize stress concentrations (or putting more robust materials at the stress zones). Once you know where the high stresses are, you can design/construct for that purpose.
Its one of the reasons certain compsands construction styles are better than others and why pupe, by some historical luck, just works…it works cuz much of the stresses are being absorbed by the higher density core. Divinycell is very similar mechanically to pu (clark) foam, its just higher density, absorbs much less water and is less brittle. In fact, blue dcell makes an excellent core material…its just not cost effective.
As far as paddling, you can bet that a lighter core board will float much higher than a heavier core board. So if youre leaning towards a low density core with heavy skins, then make your rails solid/heavy for better strength. Many choices there but wood is abundant. Ive used cedar there cuz its easily available for me and inexpensive.
Btw, basswood is a good option both skins and rails. Its 3x more dense than balsa and much less brittle.
I dont use bamboo that was art.
HTH
D
I would go the Surfgear hawaii, CMP method. 2 lb EPS/balsa veneers. Charlie Price is the man when it comes to big waves and compsands. You might want to shoot him an email since he doesn’t come by here anymore. www.surfgear.cc If you want to try soemthing a little different I think 2lb with perimeter stringers would work. Or you could go with the lighter foam and use a thicker sandwich. It’s really about preferences…
lavarat .
just make some dude!
basic composites concepts
Ok guys thanks, I think I have enough rope to hang my self now.I will play around
and then post when I am done.
The reason I was thinking of a thinner bottom skin is that Bert & Richard Schmitt both
talk about a softer bottom as a shock absorber in bigger choppy waves.
Most of my neighbors-friends surf big waves.When you paddle out you know every ones
first name, or nick name. Even at MAV’s we sit around and talk about
the wives and kids.When you average one wave per hour the rest of the time we call it
a knitting party.
Ian
building your own is cool for sure EPS will be a challenge with lot’s of wood(redwood stringers) and lots of glass for the weight on something that knifes through the water paddling out and taking heavy drops. Nothing fancy just designed in survivability.
not that they are a dime a dozen but there’s lots out there to choose from at very reasonbale prices for those conditions such as these prime examples of boards for heavy waves:
8’0’’ jerry lopez surfboard gun-shape - $120 (I’d question the class job on these, but he makes no brainer boards “that just go”)
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/233065387.html
Surfboard 8’7" Semi-Gun - $500
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/234285815.html
9’6" Dick Brewer Big Wave Gun - $350
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/233994258.html
Owl/Brewer Thruster Gun - $650
Owl/Brewer Thruster Gun. 9’6” x 21 1/2” x 3
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/213796898.html
9’9" Jeff Johnston
Length: 9’9"
Width: 19 1/2"
Thickness: 3 1/4"
Price: $375
COMMENTS
Big gun handshaped by Jeff Johnston. Green tint, Glass in thruster fin set-up,3/8" triple T-band stringer, Great board for Waimea or Sunset.
http://www.surfboardshack.com/jsp/detail.jsp?docid=1681
11’3" Dick Brewer
Length: 11’3"
Width: 22 1/4
Thickness: 3 7/8
http://www.surfboardshack.com/jsp/detail.jsp?docid=1792
I once on a whim got a brand new volan glassed 9’6"x19.5"x3.5" triple 1/2" stringered double leash cupped beast for some anticipated outer reef ventures that never got any use and eventually got consigned for $300 brand new at SurfnSea in Haleiwa during the start of winter.
But for those conditions and those waves I’d be looking at things shaped like this and as heavy and and stable as possible.
I’ll take the Owl/Brewer 9’6" thruster gun!!!
Or try to make some thing close to that nice.
Classic board I didn’t know he made thrusters.
On the main land these boards are very rare.
Brewer has some for $850+tax at Wisers.
Bradshaw is the only big name guy who shaped boards
just for OB.I have some friends we call (The Bradshaw Boys).
Jeff Clark’s boards are nice but hard to get.
I have found a few good used Person Arrows Guns in Santa Cruz.
The team boards have a rainbow spray, I called my 8’ single fin
my gay pride board.They are a little on the thin side.
Thick Guns are not the normal easy to find board in CA.
My friend J-Ray’s house was burning down and he ran inside and
only grabbed his Guns. His wife still gives him a hard time.
I like to putter around and make a few cheap & fun toys.
Thanks for the inspirational look at the master gun smiths.
Ian
Problem solved
have not been on the firewire site in a while, letting the world see what is inside. kind of.
Springer it is.
Now if I could just find that neutral axis thing.
Christian
A springer on a 6’8" Firewire should give the turns and airs some pop.
On a 9’8" board you don’t turn so much as set your line and if you go
to the bottom of the wave your options are very limited.Who makes turns at OB??
The stiffer heavier board-rails may neutralize your springer.
I am still in the strait sandwich with a free core boat.
I remember reading Bert talking about an 8’ gun that nearly threw him off
after it unloaded from a turn.
I may go for the mobile neutral axis. I walk around on all my boards. And I surf
from the front rail and back foot.I don’t want too much twang.
Ian
Opps just read some more and springers are for heavy big waves.
Last board I started making be for I had researched enough.I am off to the archives.