Compsand for big waves questions?

The big wave season is starting and I have two Clark gun blanks left. Before I shape my last 9’9"A Clark blank (maybe the last 9’9"A). I am going to make a EPS copy of it.This picture is in front of my house(Three Piece with his 10’ taking a set wave on the head)Taraval OB. I want to make a compsand that I can put my 20’ leash on and try to paddle out with out equiptment failure. And then maybe surf one or two waves per hour of paddling.

How thick should the balsa rails , board, and skin be?

How much glass?

Contours top and bottom?

Fin system?

Weight?

Springer or not?

Balsa,bamboo,or other wood?

Stiff enough for big waves, but a soft enough bottom to absorb chop.

Paddling is my first priority at a big beach break.

Thanks

Ian

were is that? also i wouldn’t worry about weight with powerfull waves

Yeah, skiny’s right. Heavy will go in that surf…momentum. YOu should check out Daniel Hess’s boards there in SF.

weight…don’t think it matters,

bottom contour…reverse vee

fin system…glass on thruster with reduced toe and cant

flex…definitely not

rocker, AT LEAST 3 inches tail and 6.5 inches nose, no more than 3.5 inches rear and 7 inches nose

tell the boys wish I was there and hope that friggin channel s of Taraval forms this year

http://www.blakestah.com/surf/bigone.jpg

This is Ocean Beach SF CA USA, I have made some good Poope guns for here and I have an Idea on what I want in a normal gun board.

My question is what would you change in shape and materials for a 1lb EPS epoxy composite balsa veneer and rails gun board? From a small wave Compsand, or a PU blank Poly resin normal gun.

No good channels yet this year but I need the exercise.My best paddle out so far this season took 35 minutes so not too big yet.I have fondled Daniels boards at the surf shop very nice!!!

Ian

Gotta love OB… most humbling spot on earth. Paddle out at Sloat walk back from Balboa. There are days I the paddle is impossible. A few times a year it’s world class. Mark Massara calls it “violent meditation”.

i have no expierence with this, so take with some grains of salt. I would geuss that i would use a higher density of eps for the core, the board will be stiffer and heavier that way.

Paulownia Skins!!!

Lava, 1# EPS won’t be the best. You’ll need too much glass & wood and, frankly, putting that much back on, its just too hard to hit your desired shape & sizes. I’ve made almost 20 of these things and its still always a bit of a crapshoot how much foam to take away, and how much glass, resin, and balsa you’ll put back on in the bag. Sometimes you overshoot, sometimes you undershoot…but nailing it isn’t going to happen until you’ve got a lot of boards with the same skin schedule under your belt. 1# also compresses in the bag a little, further complicating the dimensions. Its also hard to shape, as it flops around on your stands and even just the weight of your planer will change your lines as you walk the board, both in between the stands & out at the ends.

I’d go with 2# EPS minimum. You’ll also get a lot of strength from how many pieces of wood you use to shape your rails. I’d use 4 pieces of 1/4" balsa on the rails. Put on the first one before the skins so the skins rest on something besides foam. Put on the other 3 after the skins, so you can plane down/true up the perimeter to 90* after bagging because there will be odd hardened strings of glass & bumps of resin etc…

For skins, I’d go 4 oz under both sides, 4 oz over the bottom, double 4 over the deck. All the outside layers should be put on after you add & shape the rails, so you get good wraps from both sides. 1/16" skins should be enough, but you could go 1/8" on the deck side if you ever might want to take it out to Mavs or on a 20 @ 20 day at SOS or Tara/Ull or # 26 on the wall.

In terms of shape, go with Blakestah’s input - he knows that game much better than me. His design, my tech specs, your work (and your cajones) and you’re in business… :slight_smile:

I’ll be watching you from GH :slight_smile:

the advantages of compsand is you can go thin without sacrificing strength

maybe 2 inches or less with thin tails and thin rails.

im more in the 1 pound foam. thicker skins camp!

I’m a little lost here, maybe some one can educate me in the need for a lightweight big wave board:

What advantages would a lightweight #1 lb compsand gun have over a standard Pu/Pe gun?

In my humbling big wave experiences, lightwight boards have just scared the Sh&t out of me.

Quote:

maybe some one can educate me in the need for a lightweight big wave board:

Just because you use lightweight foam doesn’t mean that you have to end up with a light board. The lightweight foam gives you more options of what goes into the board.

for reference, the regular Pu/Pu style board for that surf was 8ft to 9’6" long, AT LEAST 3 inches thick although some riskier guys would get em 2 7/8", at least double wide stringer, at least 6x6 deck 6 hull glass.

As indicated, when it really gets going, you can grab 1-2 waves an hour, and spend 45 minutes of that hour paddling continuously.

I don’t care what you use in the rails, you make one 2 inches thick and that long it will snap crackle and pop. But perhaps given the range above the compsand guys could recommend specific thicknesses/widths for rails and board and glass schedules.

Danny Hess makes hollow wood boards for that surf, they are well over 2 inches thick though.

Some smaller stuff shot one block from Taraval

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ViOkw9CMak

Closer to the size limit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjV8pdsjWJM

Quote:

What advantages would a lightweight #1 lb compsand gun have over a standard Pu/Pe gun?

Exactly Zero! Might even say a big disadvantage. I think there’s some shoehorning going on…guys want to build compsands just cuz…c’mon man, 2 inches thick for a 9 footer? Dude, go with the tried, tested and true…unless you get off taking chances with your life…go for it.

Just because you use lightweight foam doesn’t mean that you have to end up with a light board. The lightweight foam gives you more options of what goes into the board.

Err, I just had a flash back of Surftech Dick Brewer 9’6" gun at Sunset. Not one of my favorite rides.

Better ride = Brewer Chapman 9’6" same shape, Pu/Pe.

I guess I’m old school about this bigger wave thing?

I might go for a 3lb 3x6 glass job EPS/ Epoxy. Now that might be the ticket? But I still don’t see the advantages of the compsand board in bigger surf?

Anybody want to re-educate old Resinhead???

compsands boost the strength/weight ratio.

you could build a board the same size and weight as a big wave pu/pe, and it would be substantially tougher

the rage that has come in has been all about the flex of the compsand

if you’d checked ten years ago everyone would have told you the compsand advantage was better strength/weight ratio, and more difficult to make, and that made them suitable for longboards more than shortboards because the weight gains from construction changes were more substantial

Quote:

if you’d checked ten years ago everyone would have told you the compsand advantage was better strength/weight ratio, and more difficult to make, and that made them suitable for longboards more than shortboards because the weight gains from construction changes were more substantial

No argument here! Light is often enough with a shortboard, but I feel that longboards are more receptive to what composites have to offer. This is not only strength to weight ratios. Some people like a heavier board (and there’s time were its actually and advantage).

Resinhead, I’m not in love with foam. It does add something to the mix, but I think that there are better material to beef up a board (wood for instance). I believe that the benifit of weight is that it settles the board down, but woods natural “give and take” will better allow it to deal with the waves energy than foams inert roll.

resinhead, I would agree with you on the statement a big wave board should be heavier. but you can get a stronger board with the compsand. if you add weight to the skin, you should beable to get the same board at the same weight with more strength.

im not a big wave surfer

however

re. compsand construction

you really have to think outside the square to make the most of this construction

lightfoam equals strong boards!!!

are guns made three inches thick for strength or paddle??

toe in boards are made thin to give the surfer more control

if the board had enough paddle, a thin gun would feel better when surfing

you dont need thickness to make a compsand strong

a shortboard is already strong at 1 1/2 inches thick

there are new design parameters availalble

weight can be added to the board anywhere

like the skins or the rails!

okay so you can forget about strength in thickness and hd cores.

its just not relevant.

i reckon something like this would interesting

1 pd core(obviously)

3 to 5mm skins

hard wood rails (for a weighted rail)

2 1/4 to 2 1/2 thick (maximum) 2 1/4 be sweet as

but none of this is gunna help unless you build it right

ie. following berts original post (its all there and is a good starting point)

so we have already discoverd that pu pe design parameters dont translate very well to composites (ala surftechs etc)

my question is

Why would a gun be any different?

dont you think its exciting that tried and true isnt neccesarily relevant here

you can forge ahead with newer designs previously UNTESTED.

btw. i said light foam

not light board as dan pointed out

actually i think Roy Stuart has surfed some big cyclone swells on two inch thick 9 footers

not sure though!

but i believe most of his longboards are around 2 inches thick and paddle fine