I really like the feel of the perimeter stringer in my small wave compsand board. The small wave board works good in waves up to 4 foot or bigger if is slow and flat. So I want another compsand for more powerful or hollow waves in the 4’-6’ range. I need something that’ll paddle well, get in early and hold in on the drop. The board will use balsa rails and core-cell skins. Attached is my initial design as an APS3000 file, I want to have fairly round rails so I’ve used a concave deck to reduce voulme. I’d value the feedback of the compsand builders. I’m 65 kg, intermediate ability but poor fitness level, which is why I want something a bit longer for juicy waves.
i think the rocker is sweet , the concave deck and rails is your call …
but i think the nose is to narrow and the widest point is to far back for use as a mini gun …
your running a small wave outline through the back half combined with a narrow tail , so youll definatly need juice to get it going …
the thing will surf the pocket like you wouldnt believe , but will need a real bowly style pocket , you dont get many of those down there , i would draw out the outline a little more and carry a bit more back into the nose , coz now you have a stretched nose 6’-2" …
you want something you can drive a little harder , your waves have some real down the line in them when they get over 4’ then if you hit some open face youll do so with speed so a longer arc in the outline will allow you to power up an open face carve …
that board would be suited to southwest oz around to south oz west coast , waves with bowl …
regards
BERT
Thanks Bert,
You’re right, I’d only be surfing this board in bowly waves (Bancoora, 13th) a couple of times a year. I took your advice and pushed the wide point foreward, took a bit of curve out the rear and widened the tail slightly to straighten the curve a little behind the fins. After doing this it looked a bit funny as a round pin so I made it a squash/diamond tail, which I think looks cool but whether it works or not is another matter.
hey pinhead
im starting a 6 11 mini gun as well to take to tonga next year and surf kaiks when it big
i cant read your files but keep me posted .ill get a rocker and and outline photo up soon so we can compare.
do you think 19?@1/4 would be to wide for sucky waves.
also i am going to try 5mm balsa core on deck like sabs does.
corecell or airex is way to expensive in my opinion.
and hopefully paulownia or cedar for the rails cuz balsa is to expensive on the rails as there is a lot of waste .
fcs fin systems this time.
is it sandard to set the wide point a bit forward on a mini gun?
Hi Silly,
You should get the APS3000 software, even if you don’t have access to a machine, its a good way to design boards and swap ideas - you can also use the rocker view to create profiles in CAD program for cnc hotwiring. Check www.aps3000.com for the free download. You can export files as pdf’s I attached my minigun below.
My rocker is specifically for Victoria, so its a little lower and straighter in the tail than you’d use for pacific reef waves. Be good for big NZ waves though. Cost of material varies with location - although I haven’t checked what they’re charging for core-cell lately
Dimensions are going to depend on your weight and personal preferences. Check the archives - lots of good advice from the Hawaiian guys.
looks good
i really like your foil shape
theres a lot of volume in the rails, is that standard for a bigger wave board or do you like that on all your boards
ill download aps 3000 tonight thanks
ive got my wide point 2 inches forward of centre how does that sound?
Silly - I don’t think there is a standard - I like narrower boards with big round rails for juice. Two inches foreward of centre, I think will limit what you can do on the board. I don’t what Tongan waves are like, I’m assuming they’re like Fiji?
yeah i think thick top to bottom barrels by the looks
id like to know about wide ppoint placement and how it effects the ride
and also why tails are so narrow on a mini gun outline
cuz i thought you would want a bit of width to get in earlier
im checking archives now
cheers mate
Silly,
When you’re surfing a thruster you need to stand with your back foot over or behind the rail fins. If the wide point is too far ahead of your front foot, it becomes difficult to drive the nose up the face or drive through a cutback - you’ve also got more swing weight to deal with and your centre of mass will be foreward changing the pitch so the board is nose up. If you look at thruster designs, the only ones with wide point foreward are very short fish type boards this is becuase with a normal stance the wide point is still close to the front foot due to the short length.
You might be able to make a board with wide point foreward specifically for dropping into hollow pitching waves - but you won’t be able to get it to do much else.
As far as width in the tail - with more powerful hollow waves, water is rushing up the face much faster so you need less lift therefore less planing area. Look at extreme situations - tow-in boards - the planing area is very small - 6’x15" wide in some cases. Width will help you with low speed planning ie paddling, taking off but will be hard to handle with faster waves. You can find yourself taking off and being unable to set the rail and basically doing a face plant. How wide you can go will depend on your weight.
ahhh so thats it
yoo explained it so simply
back to the drawing board 
so can i compensate narrow tail width with a bit more thickness to get me in quicker
thanks pinhead
More length is usually the way - but a flatter tail rocker will also help wave catching (ie like the one I’ve posted). With compsand boards the normal rules may not apply. Like you can probably go wider than PU/PE because the deck is harder and the rails are stiffer so the board is more responsive. But if you go wider in the tail you risk the fins dropping out in steep waves, so you might have to play with fins a bit. If you look at Bert’s shortboards he pulls the tail in with an outline that curves in at the rail fins and then goes straight blending into a rounded square. So that kind of outline is maybe the way you can still use the width and have the tail hold in. That’s why I’m the wrong person to ask about this stuff becuase I’m still trying to figure out those design aspects. I’m trying to be fairly conservative with design - I’m not going to go wide (although i think i could) becuase then I’d have to mess with tail outline or fins a fair bit. So I’m staying narrow but using the big round rails to make the board a little less sensitive. I’m also using 4 way fins so I can use fin positioning to accomodate any unforseen negatives.
Hi Paul
Along with keeping the tail narrow make sure you also keep the thickness down in that tail area. The bigger wave boards that I have had that did not really work all kept to much volume in the tail area.The thinness realy helps me crank the bottom turn at high speeds without having to be tennative. Smaller fins also seem to help on my semi guns 7’0"-7’8". I use FCS YU’s and I weigh 200lbs. One other thing I noticed on my Semi guns is that the back fin is placed at 4" ad sides at 12 3/8".
Good Luck. Your boards are looking great.
Christian
hi christian
ive been going over the archives a bit for the last couple of nights
and found lots of dimensions but not much on why things work/or dont work.
so we all know the feeling on an overhead wave of sliding out on a bottom turn
i assumed it was cuz of hard rails in the tail.
but the other feeling of not getting in earlier enough is yuk as well
my priorities in order
Paddle
wave catching/holding on a sideways steep drop.
duckdiving
manuverability
i know ive got to change technique as well
maybe take the drop more straight to the beach and delay bottom turn?.
surfing small fast waves all the time you tend to take off facing down the line and enter the wave more angled.
i guess the trip to the islands will sort me out, as those reefs have distinct channels and are consistent so ill be able to improve a lot in a short space of time.
where i am it gets a bit shifty and inconsistent, so its really hard for me to get out the back and theres closeouts, when it head and a half >you know im just not getting the wave count .
thats why i guess paddling is so important to me
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One other thing I noticed on my Semi guns is that the back fin is placed at 4" ad sides at 12 3/8".
interesting .I thought that setting them back further would be more beneficial on bigger waves for stability.please correct me if im wrong anybody
Quote:
I thought that setting them back further would be more beneficial on bigger waves for stability.please correct me if im wrong anybody
Yes, but then you’ll have to stand further back to get your back foot over the fins and on a narrow tailed board that’ll cause the tail to sink and you’ll lose speed. Fin position is in relation to tail shape/width and rocker, narrower tailed, more rockered boards mean fins need to go up a bit. You can get more stability by spreading the cluster. I reckon you should take a look at the 4 way fin system www.4wfs.com - you can adjust fin position and the design of box actually suits installation in compsand boards.
Bigger waves, always spread the cluster, and you can actually use smaller fins all around…
Bigger sweetspot, less sharp snappy turns, allowing YOU to drive the rail down hard and get full power, as opposed to small wave flicky tack turns…
cheers leeDD
thankyou guys its all starting to become clear now
have readjusted outline.
will post in the next few days