Compsands & Top 44

General Discussion
41
Quote:

I think there was a time when the tour showed what was possible. Right now…I think the tour and how large the industry is holds the entire sport back and puts the emphasis on fitting in rather than fun or common sense equipment.

what is possible. that is why so many people i know are stoked to see dane reynolds on the tour. if he surfs the way he free surfs and wins contest I feel it will show a new direction in competitive surfing

42
Quote:

The clothing companies and magazines are behind the entire thing and the entire thing is ( in my opinion) rigged from top to bottom. How does a subjective sport get an 8 time world title holder …supremely talented as he is…who happens to just be supported by the biggest and most aggressive clothing company ( with their hands in everything surfing) in the sport???

some part of it is a popularity contest. Not that they don’t have to choose someone who is actually on a day by day is one of the best of all time…only that the difference between some of these guys is small and all depends on who the judges or industry decide they want to support at that time. Some of it is just the atmosphere of the times and in my opinion another part of it is actually contrived. If you put all these guys in the exact same surfboards…do you think you would get the same results as we have seen the last eight years?

I think there was a time when the tour showed what was possible. Right now…I think the tour and how large the industry is holds the entire sport back and puts the emphasis on fitting in rather than fun or common sense equipment.

It is a popularity contest… and it’s backed by the “lifestyle” companies. It certainly doesn’t hurt Kelly that he’s backed by the largest company in the surf industry. He can spend 100% of his time focusing on staying totally tuned… He can travel to wherever the waves are best at any moment… He is exposed to more types of conditions in a month than most of us see in a lifetime.

There was a time when the surfing “lifestyle” was defined by shapers and surfshops. Now it’s dictated by the clothing industry. They pay for the ads that allow the mags to stay in business. Surfboards - as you know - have only about a 20% markup at retail. Surfboard companies barely make enough markup on a sale to pay for the boards. Even Al Merrick, who’s got about half of the top 44 on his boards, isn’t killing it relative to his dominance in the marketplace. Sure he got bought up by Burton and lined his pockets with some fluff, but if he built the most successful company in any other industry he would have made way more.

Back in the (my) day… The equipment was as much of a surprise as the performances of the competitors. We weren’t competitive surfers because we thought we’d get rich… we did it because it was fun and chicks dug it. Guys would show up to contests with whacky stuff. A few weeks later, you’d see replicas in the lineup. Some of the designs really sucked, but at least people were trying new stuff.

Now millions of dollars are on the line. Pros can’t afford to chance something even a little different. Al told me that during the season Kelly wouldn’t ride anything other than 6’2"s that weighed between 4.5 and 5 lbs. He didn’t want to get thrown off his game… not even a little. That’s why he’s an 8-time champ. He has the ability to be totally focused on one thing.

Shapers just make the boards the riders want. It’s no longer “here go try this out”… it’s more “here this board should ride like you want it to”. A pros bread is buttered by their clothing sponsor. The sponsor only cares about them if they win contests. The lucky few can make a living from surfing places that make us jealous. Those trips are frequently paid for by the clothing companies. Shapers are lucky to have team riders that get their photos published. Groms see the photos and want their boards… but more importantly, clothes.

43

“How does a subjective sport get an 8 time world title holder …supremely talented as he is…who happens to just be supported by the biggest and most aggressive clothing company ( with their hands in everything surfing) in the sport???”

Much as I’d like to agree that it’s all rigged by the powers that be, I give Kelly Slater a ton of credit for his professional and free surfing skills as well as Al Merrick for his carefully calculated design progressions that go way back… before Tom Curren for sure.

Tom Curren/Kelly Slater have dominated the pro circuit for a long time on boards that have been proven to work not only for them but with relatively minor tweaks, a huge range of other pros, amateurs and plain old normal surfers.

I’m sure we’ve all seen a host of free surfers who rip outside the contest arena but for top pros like KS and TC, it takes a remarkable level of skill and consistency along with the best equipment to get where they are. Even the detractors have to admit it takes freakish talent.

44
Quote:

This does not change with the pro in my opinion. Your right on the pros not experimenting anymore, but I don’t think it’s because of the way the boards ride…but rather…making sure to fit into a system built to promote certain equipment. The clothing companies and magazines are behind the entire thing and the entire thing is ( in my opinion) rigged from top to bottom. How does a subjective sport get an 8 time world title holder …supremely talented as he is…who happens to just be supported by the biggest and most aggressive clothing company ( with their hands in everything surfing) in the sport???

some part of it is a popularity contest. Not that they don’t have to choose someone who is actually on a day by day is one of the best of all time…only that the difference between some of these guys is small and all depends on who the judges or industry decide they want to support at that time. Some of it is just the atmosphere of the times and in my opinion another part of it is actually contrived. If you put all these guys in the exact same surfboards…do you think you would get the same results as we have seen the last eight years?

I think there was a time when the tour showed what was possible. Right now…I think the tour and how large the industry is holds the entire sport back and puts the emphasis on fitting in rather than fun or common sense equipment.

From what i’ve seen, pros experiment a lot with their equipment, some more than others, and seems like almost everyone of them love their poliester/pu surfboards with three fins on them. Slater even planned on surfing an entire tour on quads since changing the fin configuration the average joe rides is the only thing he haven’t achieved yet on the sport, but found that his thrusters work much better for him. Anyway, he continues to experiment a lot, riding lots of alternative shapes. By the way, he was ripping the other day at bigger onshore Bells Beach on a flat, wide 5’10’’ surfboard during his heat.

Solo, when you talk about a “a system built to promote certain equipment” i assume you’re talking about the ASP tour and i think you’re absolutely wrong on this one. First, if we average surfers are trying to ride what the best surfers in the world ride: it’s our fault, and the surfshop seller’s fault, i would never buy a Formula 1 car as my daily driver because i have absolutely different needings and skills that the ones pro drivers have, so i choose my equipment accordingly to what i need, as i do with my shoes, food, clothes… I always loved Tarzan’s clothing, but it doesn’t fit my needings living at the rainy region i live. :wink: Second, and a very important point, is that people tend to forget that pro surfers are the ones shaping the the ASP tour rulebook with the help of the head judge and others, so the judging criteria might or might not be the best, but is the one that the best surfers in the world think is fair for judging their skills.

Solo, i don’t think Quik is the biggest surf clothing company, no matter how hard they try to act as they are.

Have you ever been part of an WCT event?, have you ever walked into the judges tower to watch their work during recent years?, i don’t think judging is that subjective according to the ASP rulebook. In fact, you put eight different judges, from eight different countries, on a place where they can’t speak, and where they can’t watch their partners scores and they do really tend to agree being all their scores closer than one point between the lowest and the highest. And if you put a pro surfer inside the judges tower, he tends to give also the same scores… that must be because it isn’t such a subjective job, pro surfers know that and they tend to agree with the judges scores much more than the average joe because they do really know the sport and the degree of difficulty of each ride. Slater’s been decades ahead of the rest, every pro surfer agrees on that, and even now a days, when some sufers are surfing at Slater’s level, his focus and determination put him ahead of the rest. I just remembered when a few months back Slater won his Round 1 against a local hero and everyone at the beach was on disagree with the results but a pro surfer told me: “everyone on the top 44 is saying Kelly won that heat… no matter how much we love him loosing, he’s the only one who can make that turn he made while anyone of us could ride that wave the way the local hero did”.

“some part of it is a popularity contest. Not that they don’t have to choose someone who is actually on a day by day is one of the best of all time… only that the difference between some of these guys is small and all depends on who the judges or industry decide they want to support at that time.” Solo, do you really think what you wrote? Do you think the judges decide to support a surfer?, why?, what do judges get from that??? Judges don’t judge who’s better on a day to day as you said, judges just watch how a wave is ridden and put a score on a computer, then they watch another ride and decide how much better or how much worse it was comparing that one with the previous and they score it accordingly with that having always the ASP Judging Criteria as a base. Solo i do really encourage you to visit the judges tower of a WCT event and ask them to watch their job, even ask the head judge (Perry Hatchet) an small explanation of how do they judge, i’m sure you’ll change your mind. By the way the judges and head judge at a Quik WCT are basicaly the same that on a Bong or RC event so that other theory some people have about “well, Kelly made that heat because it’s a Quik event” it’s even more out of place that any other theory.

Solo, you’re right, the surf clothing brands control lots of things, but not in the way you think they do. I agree with you on that they’re holding our “sport” back, but, again, not in the way you think they do it. I think i shouldn’t write this but… judges are surfers, usually good hard core surfers who hate Quik as much as you do, and they enjoy as much as you do when someone from Quik is eliminated from an event sponsored by Quik BUT that doesn’t change their scores either.

By the way, i’m naming Quik because it’s named before, but we could say the same about RC, Bong and others.

45

One more thing: judges love watching guys surfing on alternative shapes and different boards, and many judges ride keel fishes, Bonzers, and all, so if pro surfers choose thrusters as their tool is because they feel their surfing is better with that design.

46
Quote:
Quote:

This does not change with the pro in my opinion. Your right on the pros not experimenting anymore, but I don’t think it’s because of the way the boards ride…but rather…making sure to fit into a system built to promote certain equipment. The clothing companies and magazines are behind the entire thing and the entire thing is ( in my opinion) rigged from top to bottom. How does a subjective sport get an 8 time world title holder …supremely talented as he is…who happens to just be supported by the biggest and most aggressive clothing company ( with their hands in everything surfing) in the sport???

some part of it is a popularity contest. Not that they don’t have to choose someone who is actually on a day by day is one of the best of all time…only that the difference between some of these guys is small and all depends on who the judges or industry decide they want to support at that time. Some of it is just the atmosphere of the times and in my opinion another part of it is actually contrived. If you put all these guys in the exact same surfboards…do you think you would get the same results as we have seen the last eight years?

I think there was a time when the tour showed what was possible. Right now…I think the tour and how large the industry is holds the entire sport back and puts the emphasis on fitting in rather than fun or common sense equipment.

From what i’ve seen, pros experiment a lot with their equipment, some more than others, and seems like almost everyone of them love their poliester/pu surfboards with three fins on them. Slater even planned on surfing an entire tour on quads since changing the fin configuration the average joe rides is the only thing he haven’t achieved yet on the sport, but found that his thrusters work much better for him. Anyway, he continues to experiment a lot, riding lots of alternative shapes. By the way, he was ripping the other day at bigger onshore Bells Beach on a flat, wide 5’10’’ surfboard during his heat.

Solo, when you talk about a “a system built to promote certain equipment” i assume you’re talking about the ASP tour and i think you’re absolutely wrong on this one. First, if we average surfers are trying to ride what the best surfers in the world ride: it’s our fault, and the surfshop seller’s fault, i would never buy a Formula 1 car as my daily driver because i have absolutely different needings and skills that the ones pro drivers have, so i choose my equipment accordingly to what i need, as i do with my shoes, food, clothes… I always loved Tarzan’s clothing, but it doesn’t fit my needings living at the rainy region i live. :wink: Second, and a very important point, is that people tend to forget that pro surfers are the ones shaping the the ASP tour rulebook with the help of the head judge and others, so the judging criteria might or might not be the best, but is the one that the best surfers in the world think is fair for judging their skills.

Solo, i don’t think Quik is the biggest surf clothing company, no matter how hard they try to act as they are.

Have you ever been part of an WCT event?, have you ever walked into the judges tower to watch their work during recent years?, i don’t think judging is that subjective according to the ASP rulebook. In fact, you put eight different judges, from eight different countries, on a place where they can’t speak, and where they can’t watch their partners scores and they do really tend to agree being all their scores closer than one point between the lowest and the highest. And if you put a pro surfer inside the judges tower, he tends to give also the same scores… that must be because it isn’t such a subjective job, pro surfers know that and they tend to agree with the judges scores much more than the average joe because they do really know the sport and the degree of difficulty of each ride. Slater’s been decades ahead of the rest, every pro surfer agrees on that, and even now a days, when some sufers are surfing at Slater’s level, his focus and determination put him ahead of the rest. I just remembered when a few months back Slater won his Round 1 against a local hero and everyone at the beach was on disagree with the results but a pro surfer told me: “everyone on the top 44 is saying Kelly won that heat… no matter how much we love him loosing, he’s the only one who can make that turn he made while anyone of us could ride that wave the way the local hero did”.

“some part of it is a popularity contest. Not that they don’t have to choose someone who is actually on a day by day is one of the best of all time… only that the difference between some of these guys is small and all depends on who the judges or industry decide they want to support at that time.” Solo, do you really think what you wrote? Do you think the judges decide to support a surfer?, why?, what do judges get from that??? Judges don’t judge who’s better on a day to day as you said, judges just watch how a wave is ridden and put a score on a computer, then they watch another ride and decide how much better or how much worse it was comparing that one with the previous and they score it accordingly with that having always the ASP Judging Criteria as a base. Solo i do really encourage you to visit the judges tower of a WCT event and ask them to watch their job, even ask the head judge (Perry Hatchet) an small explanation of how do they judge, i’m sure you’ll change your mind. By the way the judges and head judge at a Quik WCT are basicaly the same that on a Bong or RC event so that other theory some people have about “well, Kelly made that heat because it’s a Quik event” it’s even more out of place that any other theory.

Solo, you’re right, the surf clothing brands control lots of things, but not in the way you think they do. I agree with you on that they’re holding our “sport” back, but, again, not in the way you think they do it. I think i shouldn’t write this but… judges are surfers, usually good hard core surfers who hate Quik as much as you do, and they enjoy as much as you do when someone from Quik is eliminated from an event sponsored by Quik BUT that doesn’t change their scores either.

By the way, i’m naming Quik because it’s named before, but we could say the same about RC, Bong and others.

Coque…great post. I will respond more in depth what I meant when my kid goes to sleep. Impossible to think right now.

47

wow was that a lecture or an opion

who cares about the top 44 just go make your thing

huie

48
Quote:

wow was that a lecture or an opion

who cares about the top 44 just go make your thing

huie

Since the title of this thread is “Compsands & Top 44” i think that most of the people who clicks on this thread does care to one point or another about what the top 44 are riding.

I, as a surfer who designs and shapes his own boards at home, am interested on what the best surfers in the world are riding since i feel like i could benefit from some of their experiences.

What i wrote on my previous post is just an opinion, but since i’ve been inside the ASP working as a judge and since i know how things work there i think it’s fair to put things in perspective because usually things are much more simple than what people think, and there are no conspiracy theories against alternative surfboards or alternative construction methods.

49

thats my motto huie

if i listened to 3/4 the pros on this site id be fluffing around with poly resin

if i listend to the other half id be spending 3 hours buffing out a gloss coat

bert is a visionary

his lesson was not only in making outstanding boards but that you can phuck the satus quo and shoot for the stars

something that i aim to encourage young ben(the grommet) to do

why not

why cant he get sponsorship and join the qs

i might even give up trying to make a hobby business and just concentrate on making his success a reality

the board i designed for ben was my own outline and rocker

designed in Haarvards proogram

and built in a method i developed myself with a few others advice

out of materials completely outside the surfing industry

very short and wide through the nose and very thin

a snub nose and boxy rails with very little deck dome and plenty of volume through to the nose

i discussed it with mike daniel but basically got there on my own

from building and surfing boards that were completely different to what the pros want

or the retro fish trend

not bad for no. 30 odd

hes won two comps and off to taranki for the nationals

heaps of people have bagged the shape and even rumours that 3 of them have snapped

everything to try and discredit what im trying to achieve

and trying to get him to ride PU

and thats just locally

the point is, low an behold 4 months later kelly slater is riding the same outline at snappers

and wins on it no less

i argued with mates and builders that the design could work in bigger waves

3 weeks later kellys riding the a similar or same board in 8 ft bells

50

Never give up!F the haters.I am continually suprised by the lack of the pros to advance their equipment.There is always room for improvement in design and materials.Keep doin what you are doin Silly I am rootin for ya.

51

cheers mate

r u riding a coil at the moment?

id really like to see more of mikes designs

i think his design philosophy could be a big part behind the succsess

marry that with technology and hes dancing to a new tune

but i guess if he starts posting pics

youll see copies of them in the forsale section from chouszhen 3 weeks later

52

be careful silly. that epoxy is super super toxic and one drop will make you skin fall off :wink:

keep up the good work…

53
Quote:

3 weeks later kellys riding the a similar or same board in 8 ft bells

Hi Silly, have you seen the board Kelly’s been riding at Bells?, if so, please explain me why you say it’s the same board you designed, i’m really interested on knowing that.

Thanks!

54
Quote:

From what i’ve seen, pros experiment a lot with their equipment, some more than others, and seems like almost everyone of them love their poliester/pu surfboards with three fins on them. I just don’t see it. They are used to one style of surfing on one style of surfboard because thats what they grew up dreaming about. They have not seen much else as an alternative since the mid eighties. Mostly just refinement of the same old wider tail than nose three fin. I remember when judges used to dock a guy for riding what they considered a platter. I remember when the ASP was considering banning fish as an unfair advantage. Slater even planned on surfing an entire tour on quads since changing the fin configuration the average joe rides is the only thing he haven’t achieved yet on the sport, but found that his thrusters work much better for him. Anyway, he continues to experiment a lot, riding lots of alternative shapes. By the way, he was ripping the other day at bigger onshore Bells Beach on a flat, wide 5’10’’ surfboard during his heat.

The public is bored. It’s why quads, singles and the like are bing seriously looked at by them. It’s why Joel Tudor had more inflence for awhile than Slater or at least a funky movement towards fun. Not that the whole retro thing hasn’t been just about as troublesome in some ways…but the point is…slater can afford to experiment now and his sponsors likely need him to. Thats not me saying Slater is bad or wrong…only my opinion of certain aspects of the 44.

Solo, when you talk about a “a system built to promote certain equipment” i assume you’re talking about the ASP tour and i think you’re absolutely wrong on this one. First, if we average surfers are trying to ride what the best surfers in the world ride: it’s our fault, and the surfshop seller’s fault, i would never buy a Formula 1 car as my daily driver because i have absolutely different needings and skills that the ones pro drivers have, so i choose my equipment accordingly to what i need, as i do with my shoes, food, clothes… I always loved Tarzan’s clothing, but it doesn’t fit my needings living at the rainy region i live. :wink: Second, and a very important point, is that people tend to forget that pro surfers are the ones shaping the the ASP tour rulebook with the help of the head judge and others, so the judging criteria might or might not be the best, but is the one that the best surfers in the world think is fair for judging their skills. Again…I think your helping me make my point. I challenge that what the 44 ride are anymore a formula 1 car than a 5’2’’ round nose shaped by the right guy. There are short little round boards that will do eveything a pointed nose board under the right feet…but the tour has had since 1984 on the same refined thing. It’s not comfortable for them or their sponsors to fix something thats not broken. The stutus quo…is judged by the status quo…which in my opinion is shown best by your comment that the pro surfers actually help write their own rule books. I also challenge this because it was other surfers who saw a threat from folks riding fishes back in the early nineties that wanted them banned. There are plenty of magzine articles discussing back then. I also challenge that the tour is the best surfers in the world. I think they are the best at surfing status quo eqipment…to status quo rules…run by status quo company men. I am sure they love surfing. I am not saying they are bad. Only that they are agenda driven mostly.

Solo, i don’t think Quik is the biggest surf clothing company, no matter how hard they try to act as they are. I think they are and it would take some major facts to convince me otherwise. They are in things folks don’t even know about. Just look at some of their companies…Roxy…Raisins…Silver edition ( used to be Q) Volcom? May not actually be Quik…but some Quik money and influence was there. I hear rumors they own parts of companies mentioned here all the time…but thats rumor…so I can’t prove it.

Have you ever been part of an WCT event?, have you ever walked into the judges tower to watch their work during recent years?, i don’t think judging is that subjective according to the ASP rulebook. In fact, you put eight different judges, from eight different countries, on a place where they can’t speak, and where they can’t watch their partners scores and they do really tend to agree being all their scores closer than one point between the lowest and the highest. And if you put a pro surfer inside the judges tower, he tends to give also the same scores… that must be because it isn’t such a subjective job, pro surfers know that and they tend to agree with the judges scores much more than the average joe because they do really know the sport and the degree of difficulty of each ride. Again…I think this helpes prove my point. I have seen an ASP contest or two. I ran my own E.S.A. district for almost a decade and have helped judge at regionals and etc. I am familiar with how contest are run. I am familiar how they cheat without breaking any rules and I am familiar how surfers popularity inflences judges without them even being aware of it. A really popular surfer is worth an extra point per judge per heat. Thats why it’s so hard to unseat a seeded pro or one leading in the rankings. It’s not a matter of folks knowing how hard certain moves are and all that. It’s a subjective opinion. Air used to be a hard move, slater made them look functional…now many local rippers can do them at will. Same with the floater or under the lip snap that used to be stock moves by certain pros. It still all boils down to name recognition. How many times have we looked at film and seen surfers that most of us thought got ripped. I thought Gary Elkerton was ripped out of a World title when he was clearly the most aggressive all around surfer from small to big surf and in Hawaii. How was the one point decided? Slater’s been decades ahead of the rest, every pro surfer agrees on that, and even now a days, when some sufers are surfing at Slater’s level, his focus and determination put him ahead of the rest. I just remembered when a few months back Slater won his Round 1 against a local hero and everyone at the beach was on disagree with the results but a pro surfer told me: “everyone on the top 44 is saying Kelly won that heat… no matter how much we love him loosing, he’s the only one who can make that turn he made while anyone of us could ride that wave the way the local hero did”. He is one of the best there has ever been…and still in his prime. Thats worth a point every heat, by every judge in every contest right now… Not because they want to cheat someone, but because they simply expect him to win heats in their minds. Thats what subjective is. There is no way to make it perfect and thats why there really shouldn’t even be surfing contest at all IMO. Cheyne and some of the older pros would disagree with me because in their time they did actually see a tour that forwarded progressive new equipment …but it’s now a science…backed up by big business and alot of pressure to vote or score this way or that. I personally loved watching Tudor get third in a contest against pros while riding an old single. Tube riding contest I realize…but to me it shows that the modern shorty is not all there is to beautiful or performance surfing.

“some part of it is a popularity contest. Not that they don’t have to choose someone who is actually on a day by day is one of the best of all time… only that the difference between some of these guys is small and all depends on who the judges or industry decide they want to support at that time.” Solo, do you really think what you wrote? Do you think the judges decide to support a surfer?, why?, what do judges get from that??? Judges don’t judge who’s better on a day to day as you said, judges just watch how a wave is ridden and put a score on a computer, then they watch another ride and decide how much better or how much worse it was comparing that one with the previous and they score it accordingly with that having always the ASP Judging Criteria as a base. Yes…I believe it. I am not saying however that they make a conscience effort at doing it. I think pressure to vote a certain way has taken years to instill, I think most judges hate to see someone out there attempting to shake things up ( back to my remarks about riding fish or singles fins etc) I think it’s human nature to go with the guy folks love to watch surf. Thats we he gets the extra points…because he usually gets watched extra close and in many cases the judges are fans. This subconscience stuff is hard to discount. It’s subject stuff. It can’t be proven…but I think there is alot of pressure to conform…so that makes it tainted in my book. Solo i do really encourage you to visit the judges tower of a WCT event and ask them to watch their job, even ask the head judge (Perry Hatchet) an small explanation of how do they judge, i’m sure you’ll change your mind. By the way the judges and head judge at a Quik WCT are basicaly the same that on a Bong or RC event so that other theory some people have about “well, Kelly made that heat because it’s a Quik event” it’s even more out of place that any other theory. It’s not that they say…oooh he is sponsored by Quik…lets score him better. It’s that Quik has boutht the ads, given out the free handouts, in some case supplied the jerseys, taken the judges to lunch, invited them to parties. If any one of the judges has ever been sponsored by one of the clothing companies at any time…then that also taints it in any normal world.

Solo, you’re right, the surf clothing brands control lots of things, but not in the way you think they do. I agree with you on that they’re holding our “sport” back, but, again, not in the way you think they do it. I think i shouldn’t write this but… judges are surfers, usually good hard core surfers who hate Quik as much as you do, and they enjoy as much as you do when someone from Quik is eliminated from an event sponsored by Quik BUT that doesn’t change their scores either. It’s not just Quik. It can be any company riding high on popularity or buying ads. The fact is these folks shouldn’t have anything to do with a surfing competition…but because they have created this false surfing world in conjunction with the surf magazines…they do. It’s really their world that most people see that are unfamiliar with surfing over a long period. Most surfers are not pros and many that are not surf every bit as well as pros…they just don’t want to surf contest or don’t get the breaks of knowing the right folks. So it’s not about hating Quik or whoever…or…about wanting to score their riders better on purpose. It’s that marketing has an effect on people’s thinking in a subjective sport. So does prejudice against certain types of equipment. If a surfer showed up and surfed a single fin and ripped everyone in his heat…I contend that it’s like he wouldn’t even finish in the top two in the heat because judges expect a guy on a single to be surfing slower. If they even let him in the contest riding one. Thats not me being cynical…it’s just been my observation.

By the way, i’m naming Quik because it’s named before, but we could say the same about RC, Bong and others.

Coque…great post. I will respond more in depth what I meant when my kid goes to sleep. Impossible to think right now.

55

Hey SC, checked the doublespielix thing one the CI site. Man that’s a bit underwealming!

56
Quote:

Hey SC, checked the doublespielix thing one the CI site. Man that’s a bit underwealming!

Under[sic]wealming?

Whaddya mean? 3 years and x millions of $ and you’re not blown away by a (poorly done) photoshop representation of a cloth-wrapped railjob?

[edit] : Oops… Its HE-LIP-TI-CAL, man. Get with the program!

57
Quote:

Hey SC, checked the doublespielix thing one the CI site. Man that’s a bit underwealming!

Nice pointed shortboard shapes…but…I do actually think they are underwhelming. I liked the direction they were going with the singles better. Even if they were old style rather than more modern improvements. I liked the outlines and Machados surfing on them.

58

hey coque

what im saying is i designed a board

all my own outline and rocker with a snub nose and roughly an inch wider though the nose

made in materials not used in the surfboard industry

so a non traditional outline out of non traditional materials

i gave to a kid who ripped the shit out of it on the board

won two comps

yet i still had guys bagging the shape, the look, the wood,epoxy ,the tech and me as a person

he surfed it everything from 1 ft to 5 ft

and asked for another one with a rounded pin

he nearly gave up on me though

cuz the deck was comming apart from all the airs he was landing every session

supa light balsa decks were not for him

i said sorry but i can make one that will hold up fine and not dent still be lighter then the first one

now hes complaining the board is to strong cuz it hit im in the head and nearly knocked him out

the old one i peeled of the glass and vaced in some magic pixie dust,now that old board is lighter and still surfs like a brand new board

when i saw kelly riding a board with an similar outline at snappers

it just confirmed that i didnt need to follow or copy anybody

espically not what the pros are surfing

cuz you can bet that some of the pros are gunna be ridding wide snub noses this year

cuz they are gunna copy kelly

i guess CI came up with the same thing in parallel

im not sure

one thing for sure tho the board i built ben is all mine

i certainly dont need to copy anyone

and mike daniel is years ahead of me

you described the board yourself in your last post

yep, he then rode something similar at bells in big surf, but it had a swallow tail

i dont know i didnt see the tail

but it was wide through the nose and short

similar to my own findings

ben rides his in up to doh

which is pretty good for a 16 year old

so wide/wide nose boards work great in solid waves as well

contrary to what you would read in a mag or here for that matter

now the rounded pin will hopefully give him a little more carve in juice

most of this stuff came from experimenting with some of berts ideas

again bert is a true visionary

one day we might see kelly on one of his S tails with thick fins and a concave deck

if your interested in seeing the board

theres a photo of it in the latest drift magazine

59

hey john the post is edited/deleted now but i actually got accused of poisoning my kids for using it backyarder styles

60

yeah pinhead I really expected more from CI.What happened to the tech that burton was going to bring to the table?I was hoping to see some crazy shit.Like star war kind of stuff!