Yeah Silly still have the coil it is holding up pretty well.Mike daniel really knows his craft.I have had a few friends get boards from him and they are stoked.I do have a sunova on the way and I can’t wait to do some comparisons between firewire,coil and the sunova.I think that these 3 are the future imo.
back to the top 44, Dayyan Neve, won his heat on a carbon railed board. it was skating around like it was eps core.
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yeah pinhead I really expected more from CI.What happened to the tech that burton was going to bring to the table?I was hoping to see some crazy shit.Like star war kind of stuff!
CI and the like are not going to jump ship on the outline and basic design that has made their company until the market forces it. They will talk about advancement and experimentation…but thats about it. Most design leaps will be made by those shapers and craftsmen willing to experiment. Like Silly is describing. When Simon got the plan shape off Mccoy and plopped three fins on it…it’s been refinement ever since. I wonder what the next planshape will look like…new tail shape…new fin set up…new bottom. Or all together. Possibly single fin designs which got dropped will give us something new with new experimentation in that area. It will also take dedicated surfers willing to break from the pack where money is not their main objective or ambition. I can only remember it happening once in surfing on the tour and that was snuffed out.
i wanna get a single man
just to smooth out the ole poostance bum wiggle thing i got goin on
Kelly was riding a semi-fish shape (shorter, wider nose&tail,flatter rocker) in small weak Snapper for the Quik pro, which is the shape that a lot of us would’ve picked for the conditions. The other pro’s stuck to their normal competition boards even though they weren’t suited to the conditions. Semi-fish also go well in big mushy waves like onshore Bells. They paddle well, which you need when its big and messy and you can generate speed on the flatter faces. I’m guessing this isn’t design evolution but more good board choice. If they get clean waves with the bowl working, I’m guessing KS will be riding something more like his Simon Anderson shape.
hey surfer cross i am hanging out more than you for your report on berts boards
huie
early 70 s my two sons surfed this style of board well into the 80 s
gerry fans of course
still goin mid 80s<img src="http://i184.pho..." alt="" class="bb-image" /><a href="http://%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x288/huieshapes/stocktin.jpg%5B/IMG%5D" class="bb-url"><img src="http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x288/huieshapes/stocktin.jpg" alt="" class="bb-image" /> </a>
early 80 s along come the groms and upset everything
hasent been much change since 1981 to now lets hope the drift back will continue
huie
mate semi fish are ugly freakin things imo
pointy noses, flat rockers and daft swallow tails that break at the tips
alot of have them staight outlines in the tail as well
whats wrong with a smooth curve
theres not a shaper in NZ that i would even think of copying there semi fish design
yuk
fish
so many boards get lumped into that one catorgory
talking trick boards here
first thing you do to move forward is take the point off the nose
what a useless thing that is
and ugly as hell
has two purposes
to snap off or take out someones eye
theres no point changing boards with my design
it has a performance rocker
so it works just as good in hollow waves as it does in mush
just strip it down to basics
flat bottom
performance rocker
3/4 to an inch wider
1/2 inch wider in the tail
and about an inch more in the nose
cut of the dum ass point that most guys think is racy lookin
and of course leave the volume there
gets some foam in front of the front foot
so you admit that not all is nice &rosey that is what solo has been trying to tell you
pro circus& there hangers on go surf a theme park
just strip it down to basics
flat bottom
performance rocker
3/4 to an inch wider
1/2 inch wider in the tail
and about an inch more in the nose
cut of the dum ass point that most guys think is racy lookin
and of course leave the volume there
gets some foam in front of the front foot
sounds a lot like a mid 80’s shortie!
trow in some compsand strength to weight and engineered flex…
and new fangled fin config
and you got what i ride 90% of the time
I guess I better weigh in here since myself or Coil keep popping up. (thanks for the nice words, guys). I was gonna leave it alone because
this was a compsand thread, but it’s broadened a bit.
As to why the majority of the CT guys ride PU/PE, I’d say it’s largely because that’s what their shapers know how to build. Also they’re used to riding them, and those single 4 oz both sides PUs ride pretty good! There’s some peer pressure and other ‘‘contest’’ factors at work also.
But it’s changing, and it’s great fun to go to work (which I need to do now) and participate in this change.
As to the ‘‘stagnation’’ in design, well, I really don’t agree. There are some top guys who’ve been riding almost the same board for 10 or 12 years, but for most there’s been a lot of significant tuning. Not all of this jumps out and grabs you unless you’re
a keen student of design. I could make analogies to other sporting equipment that look ‘‘generally’’ the same as they did 10 or
20 years ago, but in fact have seen important advancements in design. From a personal view, I know my shapes change on an almost weekly basis. Small changes, but over time it adds up.
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I guess I better weigh in here since myself or Coil keep popping up. (thanks for the nice words, guys). I was gonna leave it alone because
this was a compsand thread, but it’s broadened a bit.
As to why the majority of the CT guys ride PU/PE, I’d say it’s largely because that’s what their shapers know how to build. Also they’re used to riding them, and those single 4 oz both sides PUs ride pretty good! There’s some peer pressure and other ‘‘contest’’ factors at work also.
But it’s changing, and it’s great fun to go to work (which I need to do now) and participate in this change.
As to the ‘‘stagnation’’ in design, well, I really don’t agree. There are some top guys who’ve been riding almost the same board for 10 or 12 years, but for most there’s been a lot of significant tuning. Not all of this jumps out and grabs you unless you’re
a keen student of design. I could make analogies to other sporting equipment that look ‘‘generally’’ the same as they did 10 or
20 years ago, but in fact have seen important advancements in design. From a personal view, I know my shapes change on an almost weekly basis. Small changes, but over time it adds up.
Mike,
thanks for posting. By stagnation…I mean…the same outline and basic measurments. A pointed nosed three finned surfboard. It’s been that way for awhile. I just think thats the style of surfing folks are just used to watching.
Solo, i don’t want to get this thread into one more thread about the surf clothing companies or the ASP tour, so i’ll try to reply you as short as i can to get back to the discussion about if the Top 44 are riding compasand boards.
Answering you in the same order: I’ve seen Slater and others surfing singlefins, twinfins, keel fishes, quads, round nose shotboards, epoxy boards, etc… I love watching them on those boards, some of them have a style that suits better than others on a singlefin or keelfish, but most of them draw nice lines and it’s inspiring watching them, BUT my conclusion, after watching them, is always the same: on those boards they don’t look that fast, they don’t go that vertical, they usually go slower, can’t draw the extreme lines they use to, they don’t get that much projection out of bottom turns, etc. So since their focus and objective is what they call “high performance surfing” they’ll be riding their thrusters during contests till the day they find a board that suits better their needings. By the way i judged heats on ASP events that where won by surfers riding “alternative shapes”, even round nose stringerless keel fishes with WIDE swallow tails. In Teahupo and Pipe a surfer made some heats on a quad during last years WCT, and the list of examples is much longer.
Solo, take the time of watching this video: Kelly Slater at Rincon
Sponsors don’t tell surfers what kind of board should they ride. Not to the guys at the WCT at least, and they’re always looking to improve their equipment. Surfers sponsored by Surftech ride poliester/pu surfboards, Slater rides a Simon Anderson, so go figure… It’s true that the average surfer is bored with the equipment people is using now a days, but again it’s their fault for wanting to surf what the best do. Even when people buy a singlefin with old school rails, rocker and bottom contour thinking that they’ll rip like Joel or Machado just because that board floats much more, that’s again plain stupid and everyone knows that in Swaylocks i think.
About the round nose boards, watch the video above. Find a board that will allow Kelly to surf better than on his thruster, let him give it a try and if it works the guy will kiss you… He would love winning contests on alternative shapes, something Tom Curren was able to do but Kelly wasn’t till this day. Thats why he tried quads, that`s why he brough a Bonzer to the Tavarua event. Again, i remember you that pro surfers won heats on alternative shapes recently, there are no rules against that, i can’t talk for what was going inside twenty years back. Saying that the top 44 are the best surfers in the world might be something hard to probe… surfing is not about speed or numbers, it’s about sensations so i’m sure we all have different “favorite surfers”, but what i’m sure of is that from the surfers who are competing the top 44 are the best surfers of the world according to the ASP criteria and the rules of the sport. Competition surfing is just a game, like any other, it has its rules, if you like them, play, if you don’t like them: don’t play or invent your own game, it’s simple. By the way a heat is not won by the best surfer, a heat is won by the surfer who got the two rides with the higher degree of difficulty.
Regarding how big is Quiksilver, i have numbers that i don’t think are public, so i don’t want to put them here, but i think that there are bigger surf clothing brands. No big deal anyway, they’re all almost the same.
Solo, i’ve been competing inside and outside my country, i’ve been judging nationals, i’ve even been president of our surfing federation for five years, and till the moment i started judging for the ASP i had no clue of how things work inside the ASP, how much responsibility there is, how of a hard work it is. If you’re familiar with regional contest, that doesn’t help you knowing how’s an ASP event from the inside. If you saw how they cheat on a regional event, that doesn’t mean that professional judges are cheating on the ASP. Judging giving those “extra points” you talk about must be hard as hell, i couldn’t do it and keep my scale intact to keep judging. Watching an ASP event from the ouside gives you no idea of what’s going inside. Again, if you have the interest, i encourage you to watch one from the inside. You’d love how at the end of the day judges take the heat scores and watch over and over again the critical heats to improve their work, and how they spend all they long talking about why they’ve given each score to each wave. They do really want to make a good job. Of course they’re humans and sometimes make the wrong call.
For Kelly being the best surfer of the history is not a point worth every heat. Points are given regarding how each surfer rides a wave, but truth is that judges expect a lot more from Kelly and often they tend to underscore him. Some judges even know that they tend to judge Kelly on a lower scale as they do with the best 5 or 6 guys on the tour because they’re really on a different galaxy.
Solo, you’re guessing many things about what judges do and what don’t when you haven’t seen one single ASP contest from the inside, and you don’t even know how’s their job. We all can guess, but i think that gives no light over all this thing and guessing and just guessing add no facts to this thread and will turn our conversation into a royesque debate, i like facts or opinions by people who’ve seen things first hand. By the way quik, bong, rc all gave me clothes, glasses, free hotel rooms, free breakfasts, dinners, lunchs and invited me to parties and they have no simpathy from me. I’ve been judging guys sponsored by the same brand i’ve been sponsored and i never gave them extra points. Judging an ASP event is a hard job, and it’s done by professional judges that have been years training and improving, and like with pro surfers, only the best ones make it to the ASP tour.
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It’s that marketing has an effect on people’s thinking in a subjective sport. So does prejudice against certain types of equipment.
I agree 100% with you on this.
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If a surfer showed up and surfed a single fin and ripped everyone in his heat…I contend that it’s like he wouldn’t even finish in the top two in the heat because judges expect a guy on a single to be surfing slower.
I’ve seen that, the guy won some heats, everyone knew what kind of equipment he was riding and everyone was stoked hoping him for the best to see some new things during the event. And of course, no one has anything to say against his equipment… like you’ve seen on that contest that Joel was third.
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so you admit that not all is nice &rosey that is what solo has been trying to tell you
pro circus& there hangers on go surf a theme park
What i admit is that they have some power, like every big company, they have power over who gets more exposure on the mags, they have power over who gets more money to be able to tavel and buy boards and develope more his surfing, they could even have the power of deciding where a contest is held, and many other things. But they DON’t have the power of deciding who will win an event, a world tittle or evern a heat!, hell i’ve seen someone from a big brand almost in tears because their golden boy lost a heat, a contest, a world tittle on the same morning and they wanted him to win the expression session… it didn’t happened.
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For Kelly being the best surfer of the history is not a point worth every heat. Points are given regarding how each surfer rides a wave, but truth is that judges expect a lot more from Kelly and often they tend to underscore him. Some judges even know that they tend to judge Kelly on a lower scale as they do with the best 5 or 6 guys on the tour because they’re really on a different galaxy. Cogue. I am not attempting to be saracastic and come off witty when I say that what you just posted proves my point. If they judge Kelly harder and expect alot more from Kelly…they are cheating. Period. Thats why I think subjective things like surfing shouldn’t be called contest as much as sessions of popularity or opinion. Kind of like…who is prettier between Jessica Alba and Jennifer Beal. I doubt many normal males would kick either out of bed unless they wanted to do it on the floor. Yes…we all know who is ripping the most on a given day in the lineup. However…at the high level…I don’t think it’s possible when they are both on fire.
Solo, you’re guessing many things about what judges do and what don’t when you haven’t seen one single ASP contest from the inside, and you don’t even know how’s their job. We all can guess, but i think that gives no light over all this thing and guessing and just guessing add no facts to this thread and will turn our conversation into a royesque debate, i like facts or opinions by people who’ve seen things first hand. By the way quik, bong, rc all gave me clothes, glasses, free hotel rooms, free breakfasts, dinners, lunchs and invited me to parties and they have no simpathy from me. I’ve been judging guys sponsored by the same brand i’ve been sponsored and i never gave them extra points. Judging an ASP event is a hard job, and it’s done by professional judges that have been years training and improving, and like with pro surfers, only the best ones make it to the ASP tour. I am not guessing. Human nature is what it is. Way smarter folk than me will testify to it and have in writing. I have no angst at what I am writing. I think I am attempting to see the contest side of it for the reality that it is. I am not clouded by participation and I have no benefit in the outcome. I have no problem with you being invited and getting free stuff. I have also had more than my share. Let me ask you a question: Why do you think they give you the free stuff? That puts a subconscience thought in your mind about them, their company and in their minds…hopefully their riders. I have watched an ASP contest a few times up close. Other than the nice equipment…it seems like most any other large contest. You can’t take human error or prejudice out of the equation. To me if would be more fair to count the moves and apply scores by watching a film later. Even that can be messed up as evidenced by the first Billibong XXL big wave contest. The pictures would indicate a huge mistake on that one and I also think politics played a role in the second. The stuff is subjective. Like ball room dancing.
Just want everyone to know Cogue and I get along…He knows I respect his opinion. This is not a fight…just a discussion. I want to be clear on what I am saying when I mention cheating. I am speaking of the subconscience. It’s my belief most want to do there best…but…are incapable of truly being fair in something thats subjective. It’s like the title of the thread…compasands and the 44. Other than shear curiosity which is fine…why should it matter? The best I can tell, the so called era of new fangled tech has not effected the 44 much or surfing in general. It’s old tech from Surftech thats had one of the largest impacts on the retail side of things and low cost imports. More of new application rather than new tech. IMO. Thats only an example…I am not entering into a Surftech conversation here.
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Just want everyone to know Cogue and I get along…He knows I respect his opinion. This is not a fight…just a discussion.
Solo, you know i’ve never doubted that, and i also respect your opinion and we share the same opinion over lots of diferent things. If my poor english made me look so much passionate about this, or if during “translation” i offended or insulted anyone, or if i’ve been hard on anyone, i’m sorry, sincerely, it wasn’t my intention.
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Why do you think they give you the free stuff?
Well, when they spend lots of money on a WCT the last thing they want to see is judges or any other staff with clothes from other brands… i always wear clothes from other brands anyway :-D. The same with hotels, meals and stuff, they want you to do a good job, so they treat you well, so you rest well and all that, some better than others, i can say two good things for RipCurl: they always supported the sport, from grommets to World Champions, from junior events to WCT events and their events in Europe are a pleasure to be a part off, always trying to improve.
I wish we’ll soon see different boards, materials, and lots of diversity on the WCT all different, but at the same level… that would be awesome for the “sport”.
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Mike,
thanks for posting. By stagnation…I mean…the same outline and basic measurments. A pointed nosed three finned surfboard. It’s been that way for awhile. I just think thats the style of surfing folks are just used to watching.
We’re into semantics here, but I can’t argue with your basic premise. On the other hand, I’d point out that cars have had 4
wheels and the same basic dimensions for quite some time but performance has increased markedly.
I like to watch different styles of surfing myself, and at my age (and ability) I don’t draw the same lines as the pros. But I
remain in awe of the level modern performance surfing has attained, and I enjoy the hell out of making boards for guys to
do things I could only dream of.
Totally agree Mike. It has evolved into very small refinements. Its hard to argue against video evidence. The surfing being done these days is not stagnating.
It seems like the people who complain about chips are people too old, too fat, or too average to ride them.
Often times, as I struggle to catch waves in shit conditions…I watch 18 y/o guys busting airs in chips. This I cannot deny. What’s nice is that I dont need to bust airs to really enjoy surfing…never had too even when I was 18.
Craftee so true about the complaints about chips, like greenough said"do you want to surf or do you want to paddle?"
oh, I spoke to soon about dyyan neve’s board, on closer inspection it had a center stringer, and it just had black rails.