I am trying to get a feel as to the feasibility of this concept and also as to whether surfers will accept such a radical break away from tradition.
I visualise a shaper who has developed his board design as near to perfection who is then willing to have a mold taken of it. The matrix can then be thermoformed exactly to the original specs. It is then sealed with a thin top and bottom shells upon which the FRP is applied. It is not good news for shapers....that's what concerns me.
I've had a somewhat mixed reaction from the odd people I've talked to:
"No real surfers ride molded boards. they just don't work, surfing is all about feeling the waves and the mass produced pop outs just don't feel good".
" Aloha, we've been waiting for this kind of concept to become workable for years. Hope it goes big. Mahalo."
I would like to thank Huckleberry, G Daddy, Surfiber, Mr T, Ambrose and Oneula for their positive response to the viability of this project. Their encouragement and advice have been highly instrumental in getting me onto the right track. As Huck pointed out in his inimitable style I am not a surfer and I recognize that there is a wealth of wisdom that I am lacking by not being one.
My interface with you guys has led me to the realization that I can avoid all the pitfalls by withdrawing from being involved in the “business end “ of board making.
I would be content to supply what could be defined as a sprung armature for embedding into the board and leave the shapers to their craft.
Looks viable to me - probably need a pretty big budget to get it up and running, 'tho, and in a addition to expensive tooling, you'll probably find you need to utilize labor at third world wages.
Here at swaylocks we tend to be more interested in the R&D aspect of surfboard design, not so much in the repetitive mass production of identical boards - as a general rule. But if you could build those boards, and make 'em affordable, then get some big names to endorse 'em and maybe win a few contests with 'em, you might be able to make some big bucks and retire in Indo and spend your spare time in the most rewarding pastime of all - building surfboards in your garage LOL.
Here at swaylocks we tend to be more interested in the R&D aspect of surfboard design, not so much in the repetitive mass production of identical boards - as a general rule.
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Thanx Huckleberry, I appreciate your interest, I concur, the thought of mass production is somewhat of an anathema to me, especially the idea of identical boards. I have the essence of an adaptable jig which would allow for a variety of style and dimension without having to break the bank with multiple molds. I actually see a fairly high degree of expertise being required......stilll concerned for the shapers!
Okay gang so I’m beginning to realize that I’ve thrown myself into a really controversial snake pit.
This is not, I repeat, not, a “pop out” where ahollow mold is injected with polystyrene foam. This board is 90% hollow. It has a totally unique matrix core within which is cutting edge, state of the art which replaces the foam. It has a full USA patent.
http://7541085-hexaflex.blogspot.com/
I am talking of a totally new, lightweight, innovative, inner core design …not chunky unresponsive rip offs from China.
Don’t blow this out of the water without a bit of contemplation!
I could see something like this working for the guys who build wood boards. Relatively lightweight core with a more even disbursement of the support and nice big contact points for their skins. Depending on how they did their skins they wouldn’t necessarily need stringers and they might be able to cut down on the thicknesses of those skins.
Build the core on a rocker table, use a router/profiler rig to shape the deck plugs. I don’t see why that process would take as long as what they already do with their fishbone frames and all those cutouts. Huck just built such a profiler in his backyard so cost shouldn’t be the big issue. There’s really no reason you couldn’t do your cores in 4 sections - nose, tail and 2 “sides” in the middle part of the board; and then cut them to get different shapes. The specifics of the rockers would be determined when the skins were applied.
What I don’t see is how a board using such a core would be lighter or have better flex patterns for the shortboards than the foam/laminate combos that have prevailed all these years. People have already identified how light is too light, how flexible is too flexible and how strong is stronger than necessary; and how to achieve those balances using a foam core. They can get machine accuracy in minutes with the CNC machines and those preshapes come with the rails The mousetrap that changes that will have to at least match the available weights and flex patterns, if not the low costs and speeds of these existing processes.
No, I haven't built one yet although I have made plenty prototypes of the matrix. Only recently did I find out that I can vacuum form it successfully which opened up a lot of possibilities.
One of those possibilities was a surf board. Hence my presence here. Two of the main benefits of this matrix is the large surface area it possesses for skin attachment and its flexibility.
Apparently surfboards suffer major delamination problems which can be pretty danged dangerous. If a board flexes enough it is going to shear along the blank foam and the FRP. Is this why too much flex is not considered a good thing? I hope to find a person with whom I could collaborate, in order to build a prototype. Til then I shall continue .......maybe make a small model to hone techniques. When I do I'll post some pics. Thanks again for your input.
When I saw your core the skin that came to mind was a multi-layer application of veneer, laid with different biases. The stuff Gary Young uses is milled in Hawaii - it should be cheap for you. I think that stuff is 1/64th". I could see two layers of that over your core followed by a couple layers of Innegra or other flexible filler to add thickness, and two more layers of veneer over that.
...One of those possibilities was a surf board. Hence my presence here. Two of the main benefits of this matrix is the large surface area it possesses for skin attachment and its flexibility.
Apparently surfboards suffer major delamination problems which can be pretty danged dangerous. If a board flexes enough it is going to shear along the blank foam and the FRP. Is this why too much flex is not considered a good thing? I hope to find a person with whom I could collaborate, in order to build a prototype. Til then I shall continue .......maybe make a small model to hone techniques. When I do I'll post some pics. Thanks again for your input.
Mahalo.
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Hi Bob. So then by your comments, it sounds like you are not a surfer? Do you have a surfer or surfers you are working with? By FRP do you mean fiberglass reinforced plastic, like the sheets used as wall veneer in restaurant kitchens and bathrooms?
As far as flex - danger of shearing is not the reason too much flex isn't good. It has more to do with control of the board, and speed. Too much flex, and a board will "bog" during turns, slowing it down. I'm not really qualified to talk much on the subject, but there are people here who have examined the limits of flex in greater depth. I think if you search "flex" or "measuring flex", you will find some useful information.
Not sure what you mean by the comment about "major delamination problems". Are you referring to surfboards with composite shells, like surftech? Or standard fiberglass over foam surfboards? I ask, because I don't think of surfboards as having major delam problems. If there was major delamination, it would be a problem, 'tho!
you could apply your honeycomb formula to your 3D AKU file to minimize weight while maximizing strength, using agri-waste material in powder form with quick-drying liquid binders, and then waterproofing the final shape in environmentally-safe laminating compounds.
and plug the darn 3D printing machine to your solar array while you’re at it " )
You are correct Huckleberry ...I am not a regular surfer although I have surfed, spent most of my youth on snow and water skiing. Most of the people I know surf. It's kinda hard not to know a surfer in Hawaii.
FRP or fiberglass reinforced plastic I understood that to mean fiber glassing. I'm still learning the terms!
The flex of the board is one heck of a big subject....I remember when after mono skiing on a wooden ski I tried a carbon fiber composite ski and it knocked my socks off....... the tightest turns as if on rails. That was a brand new experience and I am wondering, as an inventor, if that feeling could be emulated on a surfboard.
I have read of delamination in standard fiberglass over foam boards which is caused by leaving board in hot sun where the air pressure inside causes the fiberglass skins to inflate and separate from the foam. that situation removes the strength of the board. I am guessing from an engineering point of view that over flexing would cause delamination.
I don't imagine for a moment that I know all that there is to know but I am a willing student.
Thanks again Huckleberry......your feedback is well received.
Thanks for your thoughts on wooden boards...I am researching as we speak....I really like the idea of separate sections for the core especially since the core can be lap-jointed.
Ah yes the better mousetrap!.....well call me crazy but what I am contemplating is the possibility of a board with adjustable flex by having stringers which can be quickly changed to suit the surf conditions.
"Ah yes the better mousetrap!.....well call me crazy but what I am contemplating is the possibility of a board with adjustable flex by having stringers which can be quickly changed to suit the surf conditions."
meant no offense, just my uninformed perspective on geometric shapes specifically designed to remain stable under plenty of stress like buckminster fuller’s tried-and-tested formulas and your patented structural system
You will note Huckleberry’s rail/frame which could provide the foundation for your hexaflex material, using something like this would save you a heck of a lot of R&D time. Being a professional facilitator I couldn’t help ‘poking my nose’ in, (possibly a Kiwi expression).
