Contamination issues with Resin Research

General Discussion
1

Hi All, once posted other another handle here at Sways, but overtime have forgot it and lost the email it was connected too. Starting fresh…

 

I have been hotcoating a few boards here and am having continuing issues with resin seperating in random areas across the surface of a board. Has happened more than once, on the last few runs that i have done. Tried a search, but can’t seem to find the same information here on sways.

 

For the record

  1. All work is being done with Resin Research standard epoxy, standard hardener. (Sorry, exact specs i don’t know off the top of my head). The resin is about 2 years old, but still cures with out issue and shows no signs of age.

  2. I use a small digital scale for measurement by wieght. Im told this is slightly inaccruate but have not had a curing issue as of yet?

  3. All surfaces are wiped down with acetone and a clean rag.

  4. Few drops of ADD F that is showing its age with small amounts of crystalization in the bottle is added

 

What i come back to see, even after leaving that nice clean shiny finish over the entire surface are these areas of random size and shape where the resin seems to have been pushed away and the bare cloth is exposed or only slightly covered by epoxy. I can even deliberatly drip epoxy on these areas, rub it in, usually about the size of a penny or quarter, and return to still find tbe resin seperating from these spots. 

Tried to take a photo but tough to pick up anything visually. can try again tonight

 

Anyways, sounds like i have a contamination issues, but with the acetone wipe, i thought i was getting the fingerprints already off?? 

Any help would be great, much appreciated.

Cheers. I apologize for my spelling

2

"3) All surfaces are wiped down with acetone and a clean rag."

 

Lots of info on this in the archives, but I have had terrible luck trying to use acetone to clean and then hot coat. Best idea is to never touch the lam with your un gloved fingers and never wipe it with anything, ever. If the resin starts to separate, drip a bit on to the open part as it hardens.

 

 

3

I’ve never had your issue but I agree that acetone may be the culprit.

Bye the way, what are you glassing? Wood?

If you’re glassing over foam, the foam may be “drinking”. Probably not the case though since you said you wiped with acetone.

 

4

The key for me with epoxy.  I sand the entire board then wash the board down heavily with dawn dishwashing detergent.  Once washed be careful about handling the board with your hands.  If your hands will transmit oil or sweat on the board you will have issues.  From there I treat it like any other finish coat. 

5

Ok from my opinion you are doing wrong wiping it with aceton. As we all know we use acetone to remove resin from the squeegee or tols we use for the lamination, that mean acetone and resin “are not friends” (as my father use to say when he was teaching me chemistry).

What you have to use is a solvent (tetrachlorethylene or toluene) to clean the surface. If you are using it for wood u can’t see the difference but with foam you definitely see it, the acetone melts the foam.

About the fingerprints, “we all know” fingerprints are made by the perspiration so what u can do is just wash your hands before laminate the board or easier wear latex gloves.

cheers

6

Sounds like you might be getting fish eyes. Another couple of tips that might help is don’t spread the resin too thin (or thick) and keep it as even as possible.

7

Thanks for the replys fellas,  I have been using acetone for countless boards and just starting to have problems. may be something in that can. Sounds like its the wrong way to go entirely, I will be giving the boards a wash down with Dawn and making sure no grubby fingers come in contact with the lam.

 

The work is being done over sanded fiberglass,  I came home to two of the boards and it is unreal the amount of seperation, i would say about 15% of a deck has these signs of separation. good thing these are demos or I would have a real issue.  

 

hopefully the picture work, one shoes the full board, can kind of see the amount of separation, the close up hopefully shows a little better.

 

 

EDIT: first photo doesn’t show much, and its a compsand with colour work over top, so resin suction shouldn’t be an issue. 

gotta quit with the nasty chemicals…i dont have a problem with that!

 

cheers

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8

Yup those are fish-eye’s. I usually sand then wip down with denatured alchohol. That’s probably wrong too…

 

9

it’s the acetone.  (and don’t use alcolol either),  After lam, lightly sand all over by hand only, then hot coat.  i’ve used three different epoxies and they all make fisheyes at some point.  I much prefer RR for clarity and ease of handling.  And Quick Kick is great stuff.

if after trying above you still get fisheyes, search here on cheater coat.

I am sure there is some environmental reason for fisheyes, but I can’t find a pattern.  Mr. Loehr recommends the above and I really can’t remember having a problem with fisheyes when I have used that trick.

Also, don’t wait too long after lam to hot coat (fill coat).  If you do, then diffenintely sand it before hot coat.  If you feel the need to clean it after lam, use only a tiny amount of dish soap in a bunch of water.  clean paper towels only.  handle with throw away gloves.  what ever you do, don’t scratch your balls or pick your nose.  you’ll have to cut it in half, throw it in the trash and start all over again.  this is not something we should kid about.  except sometimes.

one more thing.  last time i got fisheyes, there were a few hundred or so modest sized spots on the deck.  I took another batch of epoxy and dropped a spot of resin on each one.  took about 5 minutes.  saved about an hour of sanding.

10

Hey Dave,

It looks like you have globbed on your epoxy way too thick. Here are some tips to hopefully help you.

Since you said this is a compsand I assuming you are doing cut laps and not taping off.

  After you initially laminate one side of the board with fiber glass cloth, I do a FILLER coat with additive F when the initial lam is just past sticky with a disposable 3" chip brush.

You won’t need much epoxy to do this. I don’t tape off my laps, so I just baby sit the FILLER coat wiping off the rails and bottom side of the lam with the brush 4 or 5 times during the 10 minute baby sitting time with the FILLER coat.

When cured sand the first  lap down as needed, fiberglass the second side of the board and repeat the FILLER coat on that side and dont forget to use the additive F with FILLER coats. The board you are showing I would use probably 8-10 oz of resin and 5cc of additive F for the FILLER coat.

 Let board cure and now you are ready to sand your board to perfection up to 150 grit. No fiberglass weave should be showing because you filled it all in previously. If you have any pock marks,holes or pukas, this is the time to fill them in. Resand repairs if needed.

You should have a dusty looking, smooth surfaced board.  Now take your board wash is off with soap and water using a rag, washcloth or body scubbing thingy. Dry with clean rags and air compressor. With a clean, washed hand, wipe you hand across ther board to feel for any contaminates on the board. Wipe off with cloth some more and check again with your hand. You will know when it is right.

Tape off  your rail and leash plug or fin boxes depending on which side you are doing. Inspect one more time. Prepare your 6" disposable chip brush, taking  the sticky side of the tape to the bristles to get any loose ones off. Wrap tape around the bottom ot the bristle/metal part of the brush to further aid in keeping the bristles off your hot coat.

Now take 8 oz of part A epoxy resin in a cup and heat it in your microwave oven for 10-12 seconds. Now add your 4 ounces of hardener part B to your warm resin and stir. Add aprox 5cc of additive F to resin and stir.

Pour warmed resin, in its water like viscosity, from nose to tail. Take 6"  disposable brush and brush resin from rail to rail then from nose to tail. Step back and check carefully for any bristles on the board and flick off using your bristle ends of the brush. Wipe the taped off rails 2 or three times over the next 5 minutes with your brush. Walk away and return to remove tape on rails/plugs or fin boxes in 45-60 minutes or whatever time your resin curing time dictates. Let cure and flip board and do it again.

Now you are ready to sand starting at 220 or finer grit for your sanded or polished finish.

 

Finally, I do pretty much pre glass install of fin boxes and leash plugs with a patch of glass prior fiberglassing the whole board. Acetone is a dangerous substance around epoxy, alledgedly causing a higher chance of you becoming sensitized and allergic to epoxy.

Below a pic of epoxy final coat awaiting tape to be pulled from rail and leash plug.

 

 

 

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11

Why wipe? I don’t understand but, I may be missing something.

Are more than 24 hours going by between lam and hotcoat?

There’s no need to wipe or sand or anything.

Lam, flip, lam, flip, hotcoat, flip, hotcoat, flip. Then maybe a 2nd hotcoat if you want.

12

Follow Stingray’s step by step advice here:

http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/first-epoxy-glass-job-s?page=1

right down to the letter.

Only thing I would add is that I would suggest sanding your laps between lams. Stingray says you can do without if you get perfect laps but, I have not arrived there yet. So, I san 'em.

13

[quote="$1"]

Follow Stingray's step by step advice here:

http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/first-epoxy-glass-job-s?page=1

right down to the letter.

Only thing I would add is that I would suggest sanding your laps between lams. Stingray says you can do without if you get perfect laps but, *I* have not arrived there yet. So, I san 'em.

[/quote]

I was just getting ready to post that link.....No Solvents!

Shop temp 65-80 degrees F. Slow steady stir. Proper mix ratio. Lam and hot coat done in less than 24 hours. Please read the link......and it's ok to have flaws in the hot coat because it's the gloss coat that needs to be perfect.......

Who invented Sandpaper? Awesome stuff!

Stingray

 

14

in the first case it should not happen, but if you have problems baby sit a bit, it should start early …than take the rest in the batch and give it more add. F …maybe even more …and brush over the area 

could save you the touch up

saludos

uzzi

15

Don’t ever wipe the board down with solvents.  Solvents today are usually recycled and have contaminents.  Use 1% Additive F … MINIMUM. Use a new brush every time.  Never use cleaned brushes … they are the worse culprits.

16

every time you touch the board with something, you have the potential of contaminating it. a fresh lamination is just that...fresh. Don't touch it.  Just hotcoat it.

Cutting and wiping with any thing will screw it up...Oh, but I use product all the time to clean my board!...guess what, product x just let you down. Product x changed the formula without telling you.

No soap, no acetone, no nothing.....the only liquid near a epoxy board should be the beer in your belly.

Also check your wifes lotion you used when she was out of the house. That will mess up a glass job as quick as anything.

17

 

 

soooooooooooooo, um,…

what are ya’ usin’ the lotion for Jay???

18

…simplify: use Polyester resins

19

That’s a step backward IMO

20

I suck but I use a clean rag and denatured alch… cuz I’m fucking lazy and I lam then I let it set for hours, days, who knows…  as long as I remember to keep my lotiony fingers off it no problems…

Those pictures looked like straight up finger prints from here…