About a year ago I was blown away by a Stu Kenson egg shape that I saw at a local surf shop. After several return trips to the store and hours of admiring the board, I asked one of the staff if it would be cool if I traced the outline. The guy looked kinda shocked and told me it wasn’t allowed. My question is, what are your opinions on the practice of tracing the outline from a preexisting surfboard to obtain a template? Is it stealing? Flattery? We can take the question even further and ask, what about scanning another shapers design into the computer? This question goes out to all of you, but I’m particularly intersted in hearing from the guys who get paid to shape.
About a year ago I was blown away by a Stu Kenson egg shape that I saw at > a local surf shop. After several return trips to the store and hours of > admiring the board, I asked one of the staff if it would be cool if I > traced the outline. The guy looked kinda shocked and told me it wasn’t > allowed.>>> My question is, what are your opinions on the practice of tracing the > outline from a preexisting surfboard to obtain a template? Is it stealing? > Flattery? We can take the question even further and ask, what about > scanning another shapers design into the computer?>>> This question goes out to all of you, but I’m particularly intersted in > hearing from the guys who get paid to shape. As a means of respect, and a sincere expression of admiration for his skills, make an effort to personally talk with the shaper and ask him yourself…
Ab. >>>> I appreciate your interest in the board that you saw at your local shop. My personal feeling’s about copying the boards I shape are as follows. I have been surfing and building surfboards for over 30 years. In this time I have had the benefit to work with some very talented and wonderful people. I shaped and glassed my first surfboard when I was about 13 years old. Did the whole thing by hand, which of course is not most efficient way to produce one. It was however an experience that led me to what I get to do for my livelyhood , which is shaping and designing surfboards. I feel very blessed to have the ability to make a good living doing something I truly love to do. As a shaper/designer I am influenced by the people I build boards for and other people that shape surfboards. I will not copy another shaper’s work out of respect for that shaper, and if someone comes to me to copy someone else’s work I’m really not interested. If there is something that I see and can appreciate in someones work I (like many others) will incorporate it into my design’s. These are my personal rules about shaping as far as I am concerned.As far as tracing templates off of my boards is concerned, I really don’t appriciate it. If someone buy’s a board that I have shaped, they own it and can pretty much do with it as they please. But to just walk into a shop and spin a template off of something that I have put a great deal of time into is just plain wrong. If you see something you like be it something I have shaped or others, ie; Rusty, Merrick, Rawson, McCoy, Walden, Stewart (and many others), use what you like in their designs and blend it into what you are making,and by doing this you will be able to experience the best of what myself and others that make surfboards for a living have to offer. As far as scanning someone else’s board is concerned, I wouldn’t do it and you shouldn’t either. Any Questions feel free to e-mail me at Best Regards, Stu Kenson
point for point i feel that stu is right on the money. also, i would think that any reputable programmer would refuse to scan someone elses board for you.
If an amature board builder does this, I do not think its a big deal. Primarily, your “copy” will not be a “copy.” The day you can truly make an exact copy of a board – you are a talented individual - and at that level, you could easily come up with your own good designs. Shine http://users2.fdn.com/~shine
And, no – taking a new board off the surfshop rack to trace it out is not cool. http://users2.fdn.com/~shine
About a year ago I was blown away by a Stu Kenson egg shape that I saw at > a local surf shop. After several return trips to the store and hours of > admiring the board, I asked one of the staff if it would be cool if I > traced the outline. The guy looked kinda shocked and told me it wasn’t > allowed.>>> My question is, what are your opinions on the practice of tracing the > outline from a preexisting surfboard to obtain a template? Is it stealing? > Flattery? We can take the question even further and ask, what about > scanning another shapers design into the computer?>>> This question goes out to all of you, but I’m particularly intersted in > hearing from the guys who get paid to shape. Go put down the cash. Then you can go home and do what you want , even though it is your Karma. If I was the shaper , and walked in the shop as you were tracing away, I’d probobly kick you in the —.
i’m a total garage shaper, done about 20+ boards so far, with better results than i could have hoped. i started by tracing a merrick i owned and trying to “copy it”, and am guilty of tracing other boards as well. however my last few boards were outlines i came up with(lots of measurements and a long sail batten), and theres definitely more pride in putting my name on em. it’s funny, in the beginning i naively went to a few local shops and asked about tracing and they looked at me like i had ebola. for the backyard, true garage shaper its part of the learning curve. if you’re a production pro tracing others boards…pretty weak…i wonder though how many have a couple traced merricks hanging on their wall.
People in this business copy each other ALL THE TIME! but won’t admit to it.If you see something that you like, ask first,if the answer is no,then try and make your own temp.with what you know.Herb.
About a year ago I was blown away by a Stu Kenson egg shape that I saw at > a local surf shop. After several return trips to the store and hours of > admiring the board, I asked one of the staff if it would be cool if I > traced the outline. The guy looked kinda shocked and told me it wasn’t > allowed.>>> My question is, what are your opinions on the practice of tracing the > outline from a preexisting surfboard to obtain a template? Is it stealing? > Flattery? We can take the question even further and ask, what about > scanning another shapers design into the computer?>>> This question goes out to all of you, but I’m particularly intersted in > hearing from the guys who get paid to shape. There is a classic story about Mike Doyle copying a Pat Curren Template off the sidewalk in front of Curren’s shop (apparently Curren had traced his gun template on the sidewalk outside his shop) Doyle wants it and takes it without Curren’s approval. Doyle has a board made and takes it to the North Shore. The day comes that Doyle and Curren are face to face with Doyle holding the board. Curren simply says, You could of at least asked. How would you feel if you were the shaper? Don’t be a weasel…
Pick up one of the surfing mags with a “buyer’s guide” section and you will see numerous plan shapes. Using a modern copy machine with enlargement capabilities, set the enlargement numbers so the copy is printed out in the size you want using a 1’:1" ratio (if you want a 6’ template, enlarge the image to 6") We all paid attention in math class right? Let’s see now, the image in the mag is 3 3/4" and I want the enlargement to be 6" so 3 3/4" is what percentage of 6"?! It may take a few tries as sometimes the zoom mechanisms are a little off, but you should be able to come pretty close. Don’t trust the printed dimensions in the ads as they are frequently bogus. Once you have the scale image, it is easy to enlarge it to a full size template again using basic math skills. Most short boards are pretty generic in their specs so getting a few basic numbers and designing your own should give you something functional. As most of us know however, there is much more to a board than the template. I was asked recently to copy a shape because the original shaper has “gone off the deep end” and perhaps is no longer capable of turning out a decent replica. I’ll probably do it with my own modifications based on the owners input that hopefully will result in something a little better…
or use a projector(over head type)and shoot up on butcher paper on the wall.With all the factor that go into a board that “works”(rocker rail thickness fin placement foil etc etc etc)the outline is the least of your worries.
I don’t think most guys care if you copy a shape. It take more than the outline to make a great boad. Like most here I garage shape and started by copying shapes. Over the past few months I have started developing my own. It is all in the learning curve. 90% of the enjoyment in shaping is the challenge it brings, that challenge is lessened by copying. Also, my experience has been that if you ask a guy, most of the time he will let you take the copy, one guy let me borrow the template to copy. Lot easier than tracing a board. It all comes back to how you approach the person.
I have yet to shape a board, and I had been thinking about this myself. For all us startups, what is the best way to get a template, if not “borrowing” someone elses? It is true what was said earier implying that it will not be a copy (probably wont even look the same). I was just curious, becuase the thought of sitting down to a 9’6", blank sheet of paper (or whatever is used) and trying to etch out a decent design just scares me.
for your very first shape it probably won’t matter either way, but if you can find a board someone will let you copy it’ll make that first one so much easier and at least give you a good starting point. if you do go for your own measure things out and trust your eye. i usually just try different lines directly on masonite, using diff. color pencils, till i get what i like. then sand the rest away. i find it easier then paper.
Wow! Walking into a shop and asking to copy an outline. Very ballsy or just unaware. If a younger shaper at our factory wants to borrow a template I’m more than willing to let him. I think back to when I was learning and how I would have loved to have someone show me the ropes. Now days if Joe Blow walked up and asked to copy an outline I’d tell him to take a fricken hike. If I know the shaper and he’s sincere about his craft I not only let him copy but I help him draw it out. aloha
Mahalo Ok, say I’m thinking about building a new board. So I go into some shops and look at other boards at the same length with lines somewhat close to what I’m considering building. So I get some ideas and the ones that appeal to me the most I make sure I remember the basic specks of. Then I run a straight edge from the nose to the tail laterally across the board the get clear veiw of the bottom configuration. Have a close look at the entry and departure rocker, the rails and the over all foil. By this time I have a mental picture of which direction I want to go. My question is simple. If I see something that’s exactly what I think I want and I think I can replicate it? I personally think chances are slim to none that I can do it try as I might unless I’ve got at least 20 years of experience shaping. What I’m saying in all this is simple. The guys who could really make a true replica are too skilled and have too much intergrity to lower themselve to do it. Personally I think shaping are high perfomance board is a huge gift that a fortunate few are born with and have a special opportunity and commitment to develope. Very few are blessed with it. Just my nickle’s worth. Good Surfin’ Rich
the first board i made was a 9’1 and i made the template for it myself. i just made up some measurements which seemed pretty good. plotted and connected some dots on posterboard, traced it onto the blank, cut it out… blah blah blah… and in the end it ended up being a great board (one of my favorites in fact). rreeaaaaallly fast. -steve
Mahalo>>> Ok, say I’m thinking about building a new board. So I go into some shops > and look at other boards at the same length with lines somewhat close to > what I’m considering building. So I get some ideas and the ones that > appeal to me the most I make sure I remember the basic specks of. Then I > run a straight edge from the nose to the tail laterally across the board > the get clear veiw of the bottom configuration. Have a close look at the > entry and departure rocker, the rails and the over all foil. By this time > I have a mental picture of which direction I want to go. My question is > simple. If I see something that’s exactly what I think I want and I think > I can replicate it? I personally think chances are slim to none that I can > do it try as I might unless I’ve got at least 20 years of experience > shaping. What I’m saying in all this is simple. The guys who could really > make a true replica are too skilled and have too much intergrity to lower > themselve to do it. Personally I think shaping are high perfomance board > is a huge gift that a fortunate few are born with and have a special > opportunity and commitment to develope. Very few are blessed with it.>>> Just my nickle’s worth.>>> Good Surfin’ Rich Just a measly 14,000 nickels, and any one, can have a copy of their own to copy! If they think that they can, or they dare attempt. There’s thirty plus years inside that shell. Add the laminators idiosyncrasys, minus the sanders bad habits, go figure on the way they that the glosser wants to tape off the tail area to leave enough for the rub out guy to not rub through. All of this to get to see the real work that the laminator offered up way back when, only to see that there’s all this “pin-air” right next to the leash plug, right where the investor is tying his leash loop knot. Wondering now,if he really got his nickel’s worth. HE DID!