Critique my first longboard and help me figure out a new noserider

[The_Pretzel]

Hey all - looking to get some feedback and maybe some tips moving forward from all those willing to help out.  Attached are some pictures of the first longboard (sixth board overall) I’ve made.  Here are some details:

Board: 9’3" x 15.25" x 23" x 17.5" x 3" weighs 18(ish)lbs.  Polyurethane Blank (Arctic Foam 9’3" LB - left the rocker as is) with 6+6oz on top 6oz on bottom epoxy resin.  Awful resin panels to cover an even worse cut lap (haha!).  I’ve included a picture of the foil/rocker but please be aware that I held the camera a bit low so it looks much fatter/rockered than it is.  If you follow the dark shadow line on rail you’ll see where the rail line ends and the bottom of the board begins.

Me: 6’0.5" x 195lbs.  Balding but still in decent shape. 3 years surfing 2(ish) years shaping in my backyard (although this board was built a year or so in).

Back to the board: The nose has a slight blended concave (1/8") in the first third with a slight roll out the back.  I kept the rails pretty sharp in the tail with 60/40 rails around the rest of the board.  I based this board heavily on the Yater spoon and the Takayama in the Pink.  I initially surfed it with a Velzy noserider fin but the thing would FLY through every section.  Worked good in big surf but for smaller waves I just couldn’t keep it in the pocket.  I threw in a hatchet fin (FCS) and its quite a bit better at keeping me where I need to be but still way to fast for me to stall out/noseride.  I surf this exclusively at NJ beach breaks where even small low tide waves can suck up and make flatter boards tricky to take off on.  One thing I’ve noticed is that sometimes I’ll go to turn up the face (I’m regular footed, so I’m dropping down the face on an angle or re-entering the wave, and then turning right to get back on trim/up the wave) and the heel side rail won’t disengage from the wave.  So my body goes over the toe side rail and the board digs in on the heel side rail.  I’m sure part of this is user error - I probably need to be further back on the fin for those aggresive adjustments.  Is there anything that jumps out to you all that may lead to digging rails?  It’s not a huge issue that happens often, but I feel there’s room for improvement.

I initially designed this board as an “all arounder” to see where I’d like to take my surfing/shaping in the future.  The future for me is a dedicated noserider.  I’ve read hours of archived swaylocks discussions and learned quite a bit but a few questions remain.  I’d apprecaite any guidance anyone can provide.  I already picked up a US Blanks 10’2"B - here’s the plan:

Reverse the 10-2 blank and cut an outline between 9’6" and 9’8".  The nose should be 18-19 inches, and the tail 15.5" with a 23" widepoint slightly forward (3 or so inches).  I’ll try to hit 4.5 inches tail rocker and 3/3.5" in the nose.  I want to do 60/40 rails all around but thin them out a bit.  I’m on the fence with nose concave.  I think that I can create enough drag with the tail rocker/softness to avoid a nose concave.  I’m not a pro, but the only reason I can see a nose concave helping with noseriding is to create a planing surface which would then push nose up and subsequently the tail down.  If I can get sufficient drag from just the tail rocker, couldn’t I avoid the sacrifice in paddling power from nose concave?  I hope that made sense…  Either way I need to work on refining my noses (a problem with my shortboards as well).  Is a “step deck” born from foiling the deck to end up at a nice thin nose vs. using a nose rocker to thin out the nose?

I really like the outline Ricky Carrol and Justin Quintal came up with for their “Deviated Septum” model.  I believe it’s supposed to be a modern take on the Hansen Competitor.  I don’t know whether I should stretch my current outline that I’m familiar with on my 9’3" to a larger template, or give a go at copying RC.  I’ve never held that model, but I’ve read it’s flat in the nose with a heavy roll through the rest of the board.  Those are east coast guys, so I’d imagine it would work in the conditions I surf.

One last question I really couldn’t find good info on: shaping roll into the bottom.  What are some numbers you guys try to hit for roll in the bottom of the board? 1/4" at the rail?  1/2"?  I feel I need a lot more roll in a noserider than my previous longboard.  Should the amount of roll taper in accordance with the foil of the board?  How far up do you take your roll?  I’m guessing you take your cuts from the outside rail and work your way in towards the stringer.  Do you roll the entire board and then put your concave into that, or put in a nose concave and then roll to meet the concave?  I’m really not familiar with noseriders so any tips will help.  If you’ve made it this far, Thank you - I really do appreciate it!

 

[wrcsixeight]

The Velzy noserider fin I am looking at images from on google, appears fairly upright/ higher aspect ratio and not all that much surface area, I’d expect such a fin to be very quick and not allow one to stay in the pocket on a hollow little wave, unless it was rifling off quickly. Not sure I’d personally be labelling such a fin as a noseriding fin.  It looks really similar to a fin which came on a friend’s '60’s era Bing, which was a flat rockered rocket my buddy rode quite well, but it was not a 10 over style nose rider.  He could only get up there briefly when the wave allowed and had to backpedal quickly once past the steepest part of the wave which happened quickly with such a flat rocker in the front 2/3 of the board.  This was in NJ, I grew up there riding 60’s longboards often, rarely any of the popouts, even when it was shortboardable, I know NJ waves.

 

Your square sharp rails in the tail having that shortboard planing look with the edge, also do not lend themselves to noseriding, but to down the line speed, and unless the wave is rifling off and the inherent speed is beneficial, then this feature is really not beneficial to classic noseriding.   Such rails might also force one to turn it more from the tail and not lend itself to turning from anywhere else on the board.  

 

The last time i was in NJ, when my personal soft railed Lboard was in drydock for repairs, I borrowed a friends similar sized board that had edges in the tail, and was impressed with how much faster it was, but I could not spend any time up near the nose, and had to almost exclusively turn the thing from the tail, and when my feet were in the right spot for turning, it felt more like a 10 foot shortboard.  No thanks. Serious lack of control in the front 2/3 trim area of the board, but when it was rifling fast conditions, I was enjoying that speed.  I quickly got my board out of drydock, as the novelty of a very fast trimming longboard that only turned properly with the back foot nearly directly over the fin, wore off in one session.

My opinion, of which there is lots in this post, is that concave in the nose is kind of a requirement for an intended  noseriding shape that has edges in the tail.  I really don’t like such boards and the way most of them are ridden, at least in weaker smaller conditions.  When there is plenty of punch such a board likely has advantages, but I personally now switch to shortboards when there is size and punch. Back in the day i spent much time on noseriders in Jersey barrels as 35mph offshores would not allow early enough entry on a shortboard to make it very far, or hold point against a 5mph lateral current.

 

Getting stuck in a bottom turn happens.  I think it is more due to foot placement error than any one design feature.  Big boards and steep drops have one getting their feet closer to the inside rail in order to sink it and hold a line on the drop, rather than over the center stringer.  Fins with more rake and longer raked tips do fight directional changes more so than fins with less of those features.  They have a self centering and more stable feel in a straight line, but might also contribute to that getting stuck in a bottom turn feel, especially on a big board one has to place both feet more on one side of the stringer in order to set the rail for the angled drop.  The WSL contest  those heats held at The Box, many surfers were having both feet more towards the inside rail, on their tiny sub 6’ shortboards.  Next time you get stuck in a bottom turn, look down at your foot placement as you go over the back of the wave.

Good longboarding requires one not only walk forward and back on the board to keep it in trim, but moving their back foot  and perhaps front too, across the stringer, when engaging/switching to the other rail.

 

If you are really wanting a pure noserider I think you should find a heavy later 60’s style board to try. What is that low rockered D finned old thing with the orange paint in the one photo?

Lots of belly roll, soft rails, and tail rocker. 3 years surfing experience is also not very much.  Noseriding well is not just running to the nose as soon as possible, but timing when one can walk to the nose and when one has to walk back,  and that is about reading the wave properly.  Longboards without any of the traditional noseriding elements can be nose ridden quite well, by a good surfer, and Longboards with all the noseriding bells and whistle design elements can allow a poor surfer to run up there and strike poses for much of the wave, while everybody else looks away in disgust.

 

My current and favorite ever longboard ever is 9’7" round pintail 23 wide 3 inches thick and about 25lbs.  It has a mild concave in the nose that blends smoothly into a rolled bottom midway then to a  1/8" V off the tail.  I can rarely get 10 over but can spend a lot of time within 18 inches of the tip, and I weigh ~215 Lbs.

Such a nose concave is no paddling impediment in my opinion, as it blends smoothly and there is not a lot of nose rocker.  Boards with deep nose concaves which end abruptly  and tranfer into a more traditional bottom, seem to have this weird dead spot right at that point the concave ends, and standing right there seems to throw out the brakes, and forward of it seems to be almost too much lift and an almost bouncy / diving board / fulcrum type of feel.   They also seem to paddle weird in that one can have the nose 2 inches out of the water when paddling and there is no difference in speed compared to it being just above the surface, where a board without nose concave 2 inches out of the water is paddling way slower than if it were just above.  Seems these boards had the concave scooped out as an afterthought. I think a concaved nose board should have significantly less nose rocker.

 

I’ve owned and ridden several boards that were flat instead of concave or belly/roll in the nose, and hated them as they had an inability to hold the line one chose when running up to the nose and would slide shoreward to the trough. Belly or concave in the nose  allows me to keep the nose midface or higher, flat always was trying to find the trough, and requiring one sink the inside rail much more to try and negate this tendency.

 

Again I’d recommend trying other surfboards before committing to any one design on your next board.  Design elements which allow one surfer to ride the nose well, might have another surfer surf poorly.  Lots of personal preference in surfboard design.  My contempt of sidebite fins and tail Edges and other HPLB features does not mean they don’t work, just that I personally don’t like how they feel, or how they look when under most surfers feet, in most conditions, but there certainly are exceptions.

 

The foil shots of your longboard seem to be a staged rocker, like this is where the nose rocker ends, and here is where the tail rocker begins.  Could be the photos, but you might want to get a nice long straight edge when shaping the next one and see if there are any obvious high spots in the rocker and try and blend them smoother.  A longer sanding block can help one to feel them when walking it nose to tail.