A friend has been testing burlap as an alternative to using fiberglass cloth. How well does that work, or other types of fabric? Anything that won’t work?
thanks.
below are some options that have been used with success
bamboo jersey
hemp
silk
basalt
there's a new firm in australia that producing a banana fiber too
The bamboo cloth is great to work with. You have none of those issues where it needs to be relief cut and wrapped over itself. It’s super stretchy and will pull around into the deepest of swallowtails. Makes for really clean laminations and less sanding between coats (less chance of dust contamination between coats too) The only bad thing is that it soaks up the resin making a heavier board. If you’re into that though go for it. I haven’t used enough to be able to tell yet but I have a suspicion that since it is stretchy it remains stretchy after it’s been laid-up and left to cure. This means when under stress its not really reinforcing the resin the same way fiberglass would and will be far less strong. I had a deck that got real bad cracks/rips through two layers of the stuff, but it could have been a factor of too much resin to cloth ratio in the lamination. Who knows? Just give it a try if you’re inclined.
Here's a nice carbon/kevlar twill we tested a while back...
There's a whole world of more advanced fibers; but you were asking about burlap so I may be OT here.
i mentioned burlap as my first intro into non fiberglass cloths, but am open to anything, especially those that would allow for less layers of cloth, possibly 1-2 layers. i’m into light, yet strong. ie: i have a 17’ carbon sea kayak that is 38lbs. the equilvalent or better in a board would be fun.
As far as I know, kayaks are hollow, and they are made in a mold using very precise resin to cloth ratios with vacuum bagging. That combination gives you the lightest and strongest layup of the cloth.
Surfboards are usually a cloth wrapped around a solid or semi solid core. You’ll need to use a light core and carbon fiber or something similar in strength to weight ratio to get a super light board. I suppose a combination of a very light blank and carbon fiber glassed in a vacuum bag would yield the lightest end product.
Isn’t that what Coil is doing?
Greenlight has bamboo cloth. Looks very intriguing.
http://greenlightsurfsupply.com/naturalbamboolaminatingfabriccustomlength.aspx
Drew
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very precise resin to cloth ratios with vacuum bagging.
Isn't that what Coil is doing?
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Yes sir.
I guess the next question is why our boards aren't all carbon. Answer is stiffness, too much of it. Good in kayaks (and many other composite structures), not so good in surfboards.
Howzit Mke,I remember in the 60's watching a guy use a bed sheet, now that was strange but it worked for a few weeks before it broke. Aloha,Kokua
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Howzit Mke,I remember in the 60's watching a guy use a bed sheet, now that was strange but it worked for a few weeks before it broke. Aloha,Kokua
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Aloha kokua! You're bringing back some old memories there. Before I had a surfboard, I was an avid bellyboarder. At 12 years old I was going through state-of-the-art EPS 7-11 specials at the rate of about one a week (this was pre-boogie boards, 1967). I was ''encouraged'' by my parents to try to make them last a little longer or figure out how to put the broken pieces back together. My grandfather dowelled one , that didn't work; so it was on to resin and cloth. Predictably melted the first one with poly boat resin. I couldn't even spell epoxy at the time, so we just looked for some substance that resembled resin, but wouldn't react with the EPS. Grand-dad had a bunch of polyurethane ''varnish'', so I was soon laminating with it. When I ran through what little fiberglass we had, I tried some bedsheet scraps I begged from my grandmother. I also reshaped the rails on a couple, my first experiments with shaping. Next spring I got a surfboard and decided it might be fun to shape one someday....
great story , Mike
Hey Mike. I
I’ve used lots of 5.7oz plain weave carbon kevlar, but never seen it in twill…
If you don’t mind… Where did you find it? I’d like to try it in some nice cosmetic deck patch applications, instead of bamboo veneer…
I think that was a one-off weave that was just offered to the Brasingtons for testing. It may not be commercially available, unless you know a weaver and can have some done for you.
A good friend of mine, Jim, at Jellyfish Boards, put me on to a unique alternate material that I’m presently using in / on a couple of builds right now… I hope he doesn’t get mad at me for blabbing this but , I call it the " poor man’s innegra "
Basically it’s 1.5oz. non woven landscaping fabric, which just happens to be polypropylene , as is innegra…
I’m not suggesting it’s quite as good as the real thing, but it is very strong at resisting shear and in ballistic nature… Hell, it’s used to stop weeds and stuff from poking through your garden…
It does take some careful prep to laminate with, and tends to soak up resin, so bagging is advised… Also, so far all I can fnd is the black stuff, if anyone knows where to find white , please let me know… BTW it costs about $10 for a 3’ wide x 100’ roll…
That’s freakin’ genius. Off to home depot in the morning.
Ha Kiterider thats hilarious, I just spotted some of this stuff at a friends and swiped some for doing some testing with, looks like your one step ahead, be interested to see how it comes out if you have pics, I got about 4 metres of Black stuff so was goin to do deck patches or something with it, certainly cheap…
http://www.emc-vega.de/de/Faserverbundwerkstoffe/Gewebe/Carbon-Aramid-Gewebe
German stuff, sure you can get it in US too? I did not search there though…
I’ve really been liking your linen deck panels for some time now. I’m very interested in how you glass those and how they hold up.
...burlap !....if it dont work , you could make a few sacks.
Geotextile (what kiterider speack about) is non woven polypro or sometimes non woven polyester. Similiar product, (often with microballon in), are currently use in composits, it’s called bulker: coremat, nidacore etc.
It’s allow to make cheap sandwich: at same weight panels are thicker (so stiff) than full glass for lower price.
But those polymer fiber (polyester or polypropylène or polyethylène or polyaramide or polyamide) between glass fiber can increase toughness significantly. Benjamin Thomson expain this well better than me in his excellent post : those fiber act like plastic film between glass in armored glass.
You can use also polymer fiber in woven fabric: tergal, xynol, diolen, vectran (polyester) spectra, deenema (polyethylène HD), innegra (polypropylène) kevlar or twaron ( polyaramide) nylon (polyamide).
Some are cheap and others very expensive but all can help to make durable surfboards. Look at coil, dynocore and certainly others…
Natural fiber (linen or hemp) have really interesting mechanical properties, but when they are used in composits with resin, they are disappointing because of inconsistency of mechanical test results…
Sorry for my english