Cut Lap Questions

General Discussion
1

hello,

I was looking through the archives, but could not find some answers to a couple questions about cutlaps… when taping the bottom deck lap, whats the best way? (ie: flip the board on the opposite side your glassing in order to see what you taping? or leaving it cloth side up and getting under the board?) Also, how do you saturate the cloth on the bottom when laminating with epoxy? since epoxy cant be pushed through the cloth (RIght???). Then an exacto knife is best to cut along the tape line? and do i repeat these same steps on the top deck? Any answers would be greatly appreciated…sorry for asking a question thats probably been answer before…

Swanny

2

I’m not sure I understand your process. Cut laps in epoxy (and I have never tried) are tricky and require alot off attention and timing. I know there are guys on this forum that probably do them, but I would think they are at least difficult. You could be up all night. On a normal polyester layup you would glass the bottom first. Let it tack up (cheese consistency, don’t wait too long), flip your board deck up cut the lap along your tape. I am really simplifying here. All kinds of other things come into play like; tints, opaques, lap grinding and basting just to name a few. Let the bottom set up and then tape for the deck lamination. Same process.

3

thanks for some input, iguess to simplify my question, i was just wondering the easiest way to tape the laps, and the best way to wet them with epoxy?

Thanks

4

I do it this way:

With the board deck up, bottom down, tape your lap line with good quality tape. I use the green 233. The blank must be completely dust free for the tape to stick. You can lay the tape down freehand, or use a rail mark tool to draw a line or series of dots, then tape along the mark for a neet, smooth, and even lap line. Mask off the deck with more tape, heavy paper, or whatever so you don’t get any color/resin on your clean deck.

Put some tape on your glassing stand, sticky side out, so your board will stick to the rack and not lift up while you lap your rails. Put the blank on the stand bottom up and press it down lightly on the stick taped stand to secure it. Cut your cloth so you have the overhang you need for your lap width, make your relief cuts, then carefully fold up your laps to expose your rail foam. Mix your (colored?) resin, hardener, Additive F well, but don’t beat air into it, just stir well for a couple of minutes.

Take a chip brush or cheap foam brush, and paint your foam rails with resin from the apex of the rail to the lap line underneath. Just bend down, look under, and wet your deckside rail where your lap will be. Don’t paint the bottom side rail, just from the apex down around to the lap line.

Fold down your overhang back down, pour out your resin onto the flats, spread it out evenly to the rail, but don’t let too much run off yet. Once it’s spread out evenly start lapping your rail by pulling the resin from the stringer to the rail, lapping the rail in one motion. You’re really spreading any excess resin to the rail, and lapping in one motion, scrape any excess off into the bucket (there shouldn’t be too much). Start at the middle and work to the tail, then go back to the middle and work to the nose. Go to the other side and do the same, starting at the middle, and pulling from stringer to rail, lapping with each pull.

Once the entire board is lapped, I do two pulls, from middle to nose, then middle to stringer, pulling out all excess and getting the lamination down tight along the entire stringer. Then I go back and start pulling out all the excess resin from the lam, this time with a bit more pressure than the first time, but doing the same type of motion - stringer to rail, with a lap at the end, pulling out all the excess, and scraping it back into the bucket.

As soon as the board can be handled, (it may still be a bit tacky, but not wet) flip it and cut your lap. It should be set up enough so that the cloth will not pull away from the foam, but again, it may still be tacky. This can be anywhere between an hour and a half to two hours, depending on if you used X55, temp., if you warmed your resin, humidity, etc. I use a razor blade, but you can use whatever you feel more comfortable with.

You’ll find there’s more to it than this, but these are the basics, and I hope it answers your questions.

1 Like
5

thanks man helped a lot, ill give it a shot this weekend!!!

6

I did it the same way just last week (it was my first try at epoxy cutlaps) and it came out pretty good (though my pin-line skills still suck!). Don’t have any close ups but here’s a pic of the board[img_assist|nid=1042366|title=deck|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=247|height=640].

7

Swanny, you mask the blank BEFORE you get the cloth even ready. Mask it like NJ says. An easier method than flipping up the laps to wet them is Jim’s post here: http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/tips-flatter-glass-job

When to cut the laps depends on the epoxy you’re using. RR about 1 hour or more, FH Fast about 30 min or less. Either way, plan on watching for sufficient hardening for this length of time after the lamination is done. You want to cut your laps with a single edge razor blade, I use about 4 per side so exacto blades are not very economical. There’s info in the achives on several techniques on doing this without cutting into the foam. If you flip the board to work on the laps, the wet cloth will separate from the foam where you handled it and also on the surface where the it touched the rack. Be sure you go over these areas and rewet if needed.

8

~ double post ~

9

I’ve cut plenty of epoxy laps after the resin is fully cured. Usually I’d lam at night in my garage before bed and come back in the morning to cut it. It’s easier with a utility knife so you have a handle to put a little pressure on. Just have to score the lap at the tape line, peel the tape up towards the cut, bend it and snap it off clean. Kinda like kensurf’s explaination above.

Then just push the lap edge gently into the foam with a popsicle stick to flush it up. No sanding required.

I’ve also used a dremmel with cutoff wheel to cut the laps. Takes a steady hand but actually pretty easy.

Of course it’s optimal to cut the lap when the resin is just hard enough not to peel off the foam and get all stringy.

But, if you can’t time it right there is the option of letting it fully cure…

~Brian

10

[quote="$1"]

I wait longer untill the resin is full on rubbery , then fold the tape all the way up and cut from underneath the foam . This way you are not cutting toward the foam and it automaticly cuts a bevel on the glass cloth . hold the tape in one hand and cut will the other. It's like pulling a zipper , you can cut the lap off a 10ft board in less than a minute. I have never seen a surfboard glasser do this but it's SOP for experienced wood kayak builders. If you cut before the resin has set up enough it could pull the glass up . If there is to much resin left on the lap you may not be able to bend the tape up. What I like about it is it's extremly fast automaticly tapers the glass edge and I don't have to sand the lap joint,just back pull the razor edge over the seam and I am ready for the fill coat . I think I have shown this in all my wood board builds (pictures ) and so far no one has picked up on it ! You cant do this cut in poly only epoxy !!! Please some body else say that you also do it this way !!!

[/quote]

Orgre

this is the way, ,, The way!

yep,,, let that shit firm up ,,, bend up the tape line and cut away (blade flat to the foam)

this is where a bent razorblade works its magic.

Oh! and it works for poly also.

definetly dont want any excess resin on the cut line

you hacks need to pay attention,,, you want a bitchen cutlap?  ,,, this is the way

 

you are not alone Ogre

11

The way I gauge the state of epoxy resin tackiness (pre-cured) is to pour a “small” amount of the resin mixed for the lam into a paper plate and set it aside. When you are finished laminating, use a wooden popsicle stick/tongue depressor and periodically check the resin in the paper plate once it has begun to gel, touching and lightly poking it with the end of the popsicle stick.  (A wooden match stick will do in a pinch.)  Somewhere between the wood barely sticking to the resin to only denting it is when I get out the single-edge razor blade.

Edit:

Mr. Ogre’s description as rubbery is good.  If possible, what I am looking for is the exact point/time of “tack free.”  Too early, the blade sticks and gums up easily.  You definitely do not want to pull the laminated cloth loose.

12

  Good technique if you glass ONE board at a time.

  I usually did 3-6 at a time, so it's harder to time the resin curing process.  And I usually headed out to surf, eat, or play tennis after laminating several boards, so I just let the tape keep the resin for curing.

  A single pass with a sureform is enough to taper the cut seam.

13

 

God  wish I’d thougth of that on monday night, luckily I read it now. I’m just ghoing to do precisely that on my deck, cheers!

 

 

14

  Don't forget, you can flip the close to cured board over, it won't stick to wax paper, and the tape keeps the resin where you cut it soft and uncured, so it's an easy cut within about 3 hours of your lamination, depending how hot your lam resin is....

15

I wait longer untill the resin is full on rubbery , then fold the tape all the way up and cut from underneath the foam . This way you are not cutting toward the foam and it automaticly cuts a bevel on the glass cloth . hold the tape in one hand and cut will the other. It’s like pulling a zipper , you can cut the lap off a 10ft board in less than a minute. I have never seen a surfboard glasser do this but it’s SOP for experienced wood kayak builders. If you cut before the resin has set up enough it could pull the glass up . If there is to much resin left on the lap you may not be able to bend the tape up. What I like about it is it’s extremly fast automaticly tapers the glass edge and I don’t have to sand the lap joint,just back pull the razor edge over the seam and I am ready for the fill coat . I think I have shown this in all my wood board builds (pictures ) and so far no one has picked up on it ! You cant do this cut in poly only epoxy !!! Please some body else say that you also do it this way !!!

16

I’ve read before how you say you cut your clean lap lines.  But it sounds like you are cutting from above (outside) the laminated cloth.  Sounds like Ogre is cutting from beneath the tape/cloth?

I’ve seen mention of a bent razor blade before.  How much angle are you putting on it?

17

Bg its called “a shingle cut”  fold tape back and cut at crease; been around forever and one of many ways to skin a cat.  Sounds like you may be attempting to build a board.  We really would like to see it.  Also board builders call it a “zipper cut”  if that helps to clarify it in your mind.

18

bg

like ogre said fold the tape up to a 90 deg then lay your blade and cut the glass in the corner of the fold

you will be on top of the glass and cutting through and under where the tape used to be.

fuck ,,,, is this shit that frickin hard to comprehend????

frickin try bending a razor blade and you will see how far it will bend,,,, not much before it snaps.

so,,, bend it to your likeing.

 

shit you guys are making me seniel,,,,   shit ,,,, where are my meds?    pun

19

Sorry.  I understood what you said in the past.  Thank you for clarifying/confirming.

BTW I never tried bending a razor blade before.  Hell, there might be some ideal (perfect) angle for the ultimate cut lap result.  Maybe I should heat it with a propane torch before bending.  I ain’t no pro.

But this sounds like the opposite of what you posted in an earlier thread:

20

Ken.

Could you repeat your post above again just one more time for us dumb-ass “hacks”?

I think I’ve nearly got it… Thanks !

VH.