Hi guys, I have a Danny Hess board. Fins and all are made out of wood. I have a delam around the base of my fin im going to repair (glass on’s). I have a lot of experience glassing poly boards and have glassed plenty fins so i know what to do, but never all wood boards glassed in epoxy which is why im a little skitish. I’m going to grind down the delam and gently lift it off and reglass the fin like i would any other fin. Any special considerations i should take while doing this given the board? What kind epoxy do you recommend i get for the job? i’ve used two part epoxy once in the past and the stuff was bubbling like mad, not sure what the deal was with it. Any suggestions on keeping the expoxy from bubbling would be much appreciated as well. thanks!
Have you tried emailing Danny? He won’t bite…
What kind of wood are the fins made from? Tropical woods have oils that prevent a good bond and over time they can fog up or delam. I only use Poly when making wood fins and if you are interested in using Poly on these fins I can give advice.
A good thing to do is always use a cheater coat of thinned out lam resin (for Poly use Styrene) have that cure then glass the fin. Once glassed then glass to the board.
Dave
I recommend Resin Research epoxy, or the stuff Fiberglass Hawaii sells. Watch your mixing ratio carefully, and scale back a bit on the hardener if you’re working in extreme heat. Don’t let the mix set, get it on the fiberglass as soon as its mixed. Don’t get the stuff on your skin, and don’t breathe the dust from sanding. You can sand as soon as it gets hard enough, but don’t try polishing until its fully cured.
I dont think there is any tropical wood in the board, looks like mainly poplar. I’d love to use poly resin to do this repair, but the board is glassed in epoxy and i’ve heard the two don’t mix, unless thats an old wives tale. I’d rather not find out though on a beautiful Danny Hess board. I tried leaving him an email, but i assume he’s a popular guy and probably wont get back to me for weeks if at all. Meanwhile im really anxious to get this board back in the water.
You mentioned that you got alot of bubbling the last time you used epoxy.
Is that in your mixing bucket or after you put it on the board? If in the bucket, your mix ratio might be off or you just waited too long. Epoxy will overheat just like poly ( it just does it at a different rate) so you want to get it out and onto the board as quickly as possible just like poly. I’ve used the Fiberglass Hawaii epoxy quite a bit and you definetly don’t want to vary the hardener ratio at all or it wont cure fully. Wade at Fiberglass Hawaii recomends that you mix their resin by weight(he even has a handout chart that he’ll give you when you pick up the resin) as it is more accurate than by volume. Just remember that it is not 2:1 by weight, its 0.45:1 . Since I started mixing by weight, I’ve had no problems with curing. They have a slow hardener & a fast hardener if you need more or less time to work with.
If your bubbling was after you put it on the board, without actually seeing it, I’d say that you either have a contamination issue or the blank was outgassing (if eps).Look in some of the old threads on epoxy contamination to find out how to deal with it.
I hope everything works out.
Cheers.
I’m using resin research kwik kick and definitely have to scale back on hardener in extreme heat (over 100 degrees). Some have commented that the FGH epoxy will kick too soon in extreme heat, but you can always ask when you buy, those guys are real knowledgeable. I assumed that was the bubbling issue, which epoxy will do if it kicks too fast. Not that the op seems to care, but just wanted to mention it because he did ask about the bubbling, and in case anybody read this and wanted to repair an epoxy board with epoxy resin, and had to work in extreme heat.
This place is such an awsome resource, why would i ever need to bug Danny?! Has anyone ever tried to microwave the epoxy to thin it out a bit? I’ve tried to use solarez epoxy in the blue tube with cloth since the two part stuff was such a nightmare. The solarez didnt seep through the cloth fully because coming out of the tube its too thick. The company recommended i nuke the stuff for 5 sec before glassing to thin it out. Was wondering if the same goes for the two part epoxy. thanks.
Yes you can microwave 2 part epoxy - I don’t, but know of people who do. Separately, iirc, then mix after. With epoxy the saturation isn’t the same as poly, seeing a bit of weave not uncommon - especially over dark colors, or if it kicks while your working.
like Huck said, you can heat the 2 part epoxy… I’ve only micro’d the Fiberglass Hawaii resin once (i think for about 10 seconds) and noticed that it did decrease the kick time quite abit so don’t overdue it (the 5 seconds you mentioned sounds about right). Lately though what I have been doing is putting the resin in the sun in the driveway for a few minutes and then pulling it out of the sun about 15 minutes before mixing and its just about right (of course it it doesnt get that hot on the central coast of california). I also don’t have to worry about making a mess of the microwave or risk dripping resin onto the carpet leading out to the garage.
One more thing I noticed with the Fiberglass Hawaii epoxy. You won’t need to heat the hardener. It is already has less viscosity out of the bottle than the resin and like I mentioned above the warmer you get this stuff the shorter the kick time.
The rule of thumb is you can epoxy over ploy but you can’t use epoxy over ploy. Give Danny Hess a call he might have some advice on what to use. He might also like some info on the fail. See
ms like he cares a lot about the boards he builds and would want the info.
did i read this right Huck???
“I’m using resin research kwik kick and definitely have to scale back on hardener in extreme heat (over 100 degrees).”
are you changing the mix ratio due to ambient temperature?
i’m fairly certain that is NOT correct.
Yes, over 100 degrees and it kicks way too quick if I don’t scale back a bit on the hardener. Even then it kicks really fast.
the golden rule with RR epoxy is to never stray from the prescribed mix ratio.
maybe you should wait for cooler temps?
Haha maybe I should! I have a tendency to find what works for me, and carry on. I scale back a bit on hardener, mix small batches at a time, and work quickly. Works great for me and no problems (other than losing an occasional batch to kicking too fast), to each their own I guess.
hahaha
i usually build boards in the summer and since the temps in my workspace have routinely gotten up around and over 100, i usually glass at night. i can and have glassed up to 3 boards in one night production style.
Wow! It cools down to 90 in my workshop at night (during recent heat wave) stuff still kicks quick. During mid day, if I mix at standard ratio, I can feel the mixing cup generating heat as I’m mixing.
No warranties expressed or implied. Ive been doing it this way for years, all my boards are holding up well, no problems with my glass jobs yet. I always have a little hardener left over when the resin runs out.
i use kwik kick because I like fast set up, probably not as much of an issue with other mixes.
90 at night??? geez!
i think the ideal temp is about 80-85. any higher than that and things get sideways really quick imo.
i really DISliked the QK. I felt like it went thick too fast and i couldn’t spread it around.
i really like the CE Fast and i always warm the resin
can i get some more info on what a cheater coat is? So after i lift off the delam glass on the wooden hess fin im going to be glassing over bare wood. I paint a thin layer of lam resin your saying, or in this case epoxy, let that dry… probably even it out a bit with some sand paper, and then proceed to lay my cloth? thanks
Its been my understanding that any deviation of the resin and hardener ratio from the prescribed ratio compromises the cured strength properties of the epoxy.
I’ve noticed that when I nail the ratio on small batches, the epoxy left over in the mixing cup gets nice and hard and peels from the cup nicely, if I miss the ratio, then the epoxy is more dificult to remove from the mixing cup and remains softer forever after.
I’ll never intentionally vary the ratio, but mixing small batches leaves room for more error, and I can tell how well I nailed it by how the epoxy cures in the mixing cup. I’ve sanded off mistakes because I did not feel they would be strong enough, even though it looked and sanded fine. If I can dent it with a fingernail 12 hours after mixing, I know I missed the mark, and can throw a tantrum and go into hulk mode. So I will take extreme measures to nail the volume ratio, knowing darn well I should get a precise scale and do some math instead.
I’m not really sure how Hess’s boards are constructed in the fin area, but I use extra reenforcement below where glass on fins attach to the HWS. But mostly I use the old fcs plugs and they are sunk into a small block of wrcedar which is heavily reenforced internally. I feel this makes for a more direct connection between my foot and the fin and is partly responsible for why the board rides better than the increased weight of my HWS’s would indicate. I’ve a HWS made very similar in shape to a polyester board, and have used the same fins on both, and 9 times out of 10 the HWS rides crisper where as the poly board feels squishy. Lots of subjective opinion here, but I believe the less flex through the board between foot and fin base increases responsiveness.
Kind of like how a sports car that has a stiffer suspension and turns well compared to the same car with softer springs and shock rates in the same turn at the same speed. Perhaps the softer squishier suspension performs well in some parts of the track and is more comfortable for the driver, but it removes some of the nimbleness.
I’ve also had to reenforce improperly installed fcs plugs on poly boards, making a solid deck connection and noticed a crisper feel on the board afterward, using the same exact fins.