I keep designing and redesigning boards. I can’t seem to make up my mind! I’m in paralysis of indecision. It’s easy to say ‘Just make it already!’ but I can’t because I don’t want to be wasteful and space is extremely tight here.
How do I make a decision? I currently have a 6’5" pintail single but it’s slightly weak in gutless waves. I want an all-out stoke, catch-as-much-as-possible board (including hollowness)… but not as unwieldly as a true longboard.
So I am trying to decide if I should make an eggy mid-length
or
Make a slightly fishy but wide tail twin fin simmons
As I understand it, a fish tail helps hollow sections and actually roundtails are no too bad for that either… from what I’ve read.
How to make a decision like this? Maybe I still can’t accept the idea that there is no way round the tail block width compromise and that is the thing causing me to flip-flop with decisions. Or am I focussing too much on outline too much without realising it and that is causing me to get confused.
I’m gravitating towards the mid-length as I guess the extra length makes any shaping mistakes less noticable.
One size will not fit all conditions so you can just forget that. You’ve got one board that is primarily oriented for certain conditions, so now you need to build on that by doing a board that’s oriented for a different set of conditions. If it’s small and mushy then you want a board that specializes in those conditions and not worry about what to surf when its faster (that’s what your 6-5 is for). More specialization = less compromising.
If you already have a 6.5 pintail and have been surfing that then you need to give some consideration to the surfing style you have, and how you already move on a surfboard. The next logical step from that would be another design aimed at smaller conditions that allows the relatively close stance that’s further forward off the tail block, but with fins out at the rail. A traditional fish could do that, but so could a Simmons-type do that.
The difference between the two is that a fish will have the wide point ahead of center and the longer/straighter rear quarter. They usually have a tucked rail that remains at a 70/30 or 60/40 downrail all the way through to the nose. They do well with the long carve and max speed.
The Simmons design has the wide point several inches behind center, and a significantly shorter rear quarter. The bottoms are usually set up so that they go from a sharp edge in the tail, transition to the 50/50 rail in the center, and end with a hull-style nose and 10/90 or even a 0/100 uprail in the noise. It’s a more complicated bottom to shape - there’s a lot going on. Comparatively more volume in the tail and less in the nose. They’re probably a little more difficult for most people to surf well, and they won’t have as much top end as a fish. They’re definitely less versatile than a fish, which in turn will be less versatile than an egg.
Speaking of eggs, that’s another option for your quiver. A 2+1 egg will give you a wider tail block and fins out at the rail and will have a lot of versatility, except it won’t be specialized for small/mushy.
A midlength egg is a great addition to any quiver. I like mine between 7-2 and 8’ but I just made myself a 6-10. A square tail in the same range is another option, just make sure you have at least 2 side fin boxes and a long center box and have the center box set to be able to put a thruster rear fin in. The midengths allow you to get in the wave a little earlier. Just stay back on the tail for sharp turns.
Watch the Kazumasurf videos, he gives a lot of really good advice for shapers. He’s also a highly respected shaper on Maui, and learned from master shaper Ben Aipa.
This the 6-10 I just finished. I made it from styrofoam coolers.
Can you borrow/rent a Simmons/fishy/egg of the size and style you are considering, to try, see if you like it how it goes?
I’ve watched many a friend/acquaintenance/contemptible douch, decide they love the appearance/aesthetics/attributes of one style of board, or another, without ever having ridden something like it or similar, and then once they acquire one, eventually realize that it does not fit their surfing style, or ability, or available waves, and no longer care to figure it out and start looking to trade it or sell it.
That or they try so hard for too long to figure it out, that it hurts their surfing and potential for achieving joy. Its painful to watch.
Making your own board, the process for deciding it does not work for you can be extended longer than it should, simply through desire that your own creation works for you, when it does not.
So unless you can whip out and offload failed experiments easily and quickly, I recommend being more sure of what you want to make, by riding something similar first, then tweaking that design for your own desires/ height/ weight/ ability/ waves.
There are 2 boards I have used or had I am thinking of here:
McKee Egg. The 6’10 or 6’6". I liked this board but it felt like an everyman board. Useful for anyone, anywhere. It wasn’t particularly suited to my style but it catches a lot of waves, which is great.
A single to double concave twin keel Simmons. 5’6", it was also** wide point back**. I have tried 4 mini simmons but this is the only one that felt magic to me. I really miss this board. I always thought it was the wide point back.
I’ve also owned fish and tried the Hypto Krypto. I think all of these wide point forward boards are not good for me. I never really fell in love with a fish yet.
Thanks for the detail on the simmons gDaddy It now seems too risky to get right. The egg is a safer bet for a beginning shaper. I’ve only made 4 boards.
How’s about using the McKee Egg as a starting point but put the wide point back and straighten the rail outline slightly? Maybe I’m making a mistake about wide point back or there could be another way to get a board matched to me this way?
Sharkcountry,
thanks for the Kazumasurf videos. I am going to shape this one only partially by hand but those videos will help me for reference
See, now you’re speaking my language. I’ve been doing wide point back shapes for years and I like them.
For example, think of a McCoy Astron Zot. Pay no mind to his comments that they have to be a single or a thruster, a quad layout works really well with this shape. You can adjust the length and rocker to suit.
Or do a mashup of these elements and maybe throw in some Simmons elements like using a more squash or squared tailblock. Stick to the combination of elements that you think will work. And with wide boards all you need is a flat to (subtle) vee bottom contour. Less is more, especially when you’re starting out as a shaper.
It’s hard the recommend something because I don’t know how you surf or where you surf. I’ve been surfing for 50+ years here on the island of Oahu in Hawaii, and my style was heavily influenced by the 70’s generation of single fin surfers. I usually surf on the south side of the island where the waves are not as powerful, but more playful and long rides. It can get powerful, and this year has been a really good year for decent overhead surf.
You say… “I want an all-out stoke, catch-as-much-as-possible board (including hollowness)… but not as unwieldly as a true longboard.” For me that would be more on the longer side, closer to 8’, definitely longer than 7’. I’d go with a low rocker, slightly wider but with thinned out rails design. Keep the wide point at center or slightly back and the tail wide. I can turn a 8" board easily and not worry about it feeling like a longboard. The extra length going from 7’ to 8’ makes a big difference in paddling, even if you keep the volume the same.
The first board I have here is my version of what you are trying to make. If I add 2 side fins, it would handle just about anything. I am currently back to shorter boards so the 6-10 egg I just finished is working just as planned, and may be the go to for anything shoulder high or better. The second board was made recently for small gutless waves, it’s my interpretation of a McCoy Nugget. It is 6-2, thick, it has a lot of foam in the middle and back and is made to stand on the tail. It’s a lot of fun and paddles well.
