deck roll

I did a search on it and nothing specific came up or i didnt find it more likely. I am always looking for the clues to make better shapes or to make them do what i want. Deck roll i been wondering about, it was alluded to twice in the last couple months, maybe it was kokua talking bout a guy that would hotwire his blank, then drop the templates a half inch and lay an eight inch wide pc of masonite on top of the blank and rewire it to achieve a roughout of the roll. In another thread mike daniels said that it was often confused as being a function of the rail bands but actually a separate feature. Although barnfield and other michalangelos could probably slice away the excess material combining rail bands and deck roll simultaneously, i decidedly cannot, and i think this is one of the missing links in my shaping. Ive only done maybe a dozen boards, definitely less than fifteen, lost track, some were rebuilds, a couple never glassed, delammed, given away etc. Now i have more of a procedure. But in going backwards shaping from top down earlier i at least acheived something like deck roll, whereas recentlyI have better rail bands but trasitions awkwardly on deck, resulting in a muffin top appearance at the boards’ shoulder when viewed from a certain angle. Flatter deck- more volume and possibly flex, domed more rigid, segway to desired rail shape…ok, well admittedly as much for aesthetics on a shortboard i’m shaping, i rolled the deck before doing the bands and it looks so much better, i cant believe something as simple as this i had missed as an intentional part of shaping procedure instead of an afterthought blending attempt. I never used or even looked at a blank from closer than ten feet away…they must have the deck shape somewhat there to start with. well i sort of left it flat eight inches wide on center of deck, marked half inch down at mid length, quarter inch down a foot from ends, planed to that, worked on this one. If anyone cares to, add anything about deck roll procedure/ changes/ applications.

Righto. I will have to try the next one the way you guys do it using the outline as a guide, it may result with even more fluid curves. I dont draw lines for rail bands, but i went against that for the roll and drew two parallel lines four inches off each side of the stringer, then planed so the cuts met up with my tick marks at the outline and the lines on the deck. Heres why i went with lines parallel to stringer…the reference of the guy dropping his hotwire templates half inch then rewiring over a narrow flat pc, that would make straight line results (but after cutting yer outline it would not be a half inch drop continuously, only at the wide point and less everywhere else, hence I marked a quarter down on the outline where it was half the distance closer to stringer)…also, looking at a wrv shortboard for reference, it appears to have the same amount of roll four inches off the stringer at any point along the length of the board. So if/ when i start using blanks this is one little thing i wont have to pay attention to! But thats right, probably wouldnt have thought about this except that square blocks of foam confront you in every way, so leaving something out is more noticeable. thinking about all the variables is like trying to visualize the fourth dimension.

Deck roll is the relationship between centerline deck curve and deck curve at crown of rail. On a totally flat deck, these curves are the same, but most boards have varying degrees of roll which puts more curve into crown of rail.

On Barnfield's rail band thread, we talked about how the deck roll gets cut in. Bill explains his technique of working ''around'' the board (my paraphrasing), defining the bottom first, then out to rails, then deck dome and foil tuning. I suggested that for many applications, doing the deck roll before rail bands might be preferable. A finished deck roll sets the foil of rail, leaves you with smaller bands to cut, which IMO is going to give better results for the home shaper. Barnfield's technique certainly works for someone with his skills, though.

I've never put pencil marks for bands, but if you're going to do it, measure up from bottom (rather than down from deck). Assuming, of course, that you've properly squared up your bottom. Unless there's some hideous twist or thickness lumps, the bottom is usually shaped first...

Hey dpicton,

I hold a pencil on, for example the 5inch mark on a square. then butt the square up to the outline(havent shaped the rails yet at this point) now i run the square along the outline of the board and it creates the same curve of the outline except 5 inches in.  then do 3 inches or 7 inches or whatever. numbers depend on the board, but these are just examples. I use these curves as "markers" , when I plane crown into the deck. I draw my guidelines befor shaping rails cause the square slides against the cut out outline easier than a rounded and shaped rail. I hope all this makes sense.

http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1023851

http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1029667

I'm no Pro. I do what AStevens talks about but use a home made tool like one in the above links. My first 5 or so surfboards were made from Clark and Walker foam...then about 15 surfboards from EPS slabs....That's where I learned about dome and rails and rocker and other  stuff....The homemade blanks taught me soo much!

I pick up a close tolerance short board blank from time to time....I could shape the whole thing with a sanding block and some 60 grit....That's how good blanks are these days....and the decks are pre-rolled for you......

Have fun....Ray

For what its worth, I do bottom first then get it all foiled, appropriate thickness, ect, draw th lines I was talking about then do rails then do deck roll connecting the rails to the stringer with as flat or as domey a roll as I want to do. works for me, but there are a million ways to complete the same task

As and older/bigger surfer myself, that’s exactly how I do it and why.

I like Jim's comment about shaping being ''a life long learning curve'', that is so true. If someone with his experience and abilities is still getting better, it should inspire all of us to learn new things.

The hotwire technique of cutting a bevel gives you a start at deck roll, but dome usually tapers to some extent.

Thanks for the collective knowledge on this topic. I guess it can be overthought like any single aspect, but it dawned on me as something i should be aware of and shape with intention even though i just wanted to make my board ‘look right’ and i figured that was one thing i wasnt thinking about much. Establishing deck curve at crown of rail, determining rail profile, distributing thickness are better explanations of why all decks are not flat or why they might not ‘look right’ if left that way. This is what im working on, sort of a chunky shortboard, still gotta turn the template band and screen the rails, nothing special and not flawless but to me the deck flow feels more intentional, thats all. d

the original post said something to the effect that a thinner rail might give less flex (should have quoted...) but no.  The more you take of the more flex you'll have.  Thinning a blank is a BIG contributor to flex, other things being equal.

Yeah Mike for someone like me I am definitely liking the roll first, rails after, at least with current results on current project. I cant totally wing it from practice and experience so i make pencil tick marks , one at mid, one a foot from ends, for reference for height of remaining template band But i do measure up from bottom and mark it before i flip it over and do my bottom bands, otherwise there is nowhere good to hold the tape measure without using a framing square as it extends the bottom plane to measure off. I said ’ half inch down’ for the amount of roll i gave it cuz its easier than saying ‘two and an eighth inches up from the bottom’… thanks for input everyone

Learning to capture and contain deck roll is one of the secrets to hiding thickness on floaty boards.

I get a large amount of my customs for older, bigger surfers, but I don’t want to give them a baseball bat rail, so after cleaning up the blank and getting the bottom rockered, thinned and trued up, I go back to the deck and put on an initial rail band.

The purpose of this one is to use the bottom edge of the band to create a rail profile line of a much thinner board, then it is a continued process of a series of cuts to remove foam from the rail area, fading out as you near the stringer. This is where you have to be careful not to make a deck that comes out to be like a V bottom.

Once you are satisfied with the results, then go back to putting the rails on, if it feels a bit too crowned, just hit the stringer area lightly until you like what you have.

Only in the last few years have I really gotten a grasp on redistributing foam that gives a rather bulky board a feel of a lively, thinner board, shaping, a life long learning curve