Not to be rude to anyone who has posted a technical question, theory, or idea lately, but what ever happened to the “K.I.S.S.” principle?: “Keep It Simple Stupid”. I believe that it also applies to surfboard design. No modern surfer wants to ride a crude popsicle stick or a tree trunk, but then again, if it works? I like to take the basic proven design theories and incorporate them on my boards. For example, I believe that a swallow tail design on a short or longboard is mostly for looks. I choose to shape a squash or rounded square tail on these boards for a more functional design. However, If the customer wants it, they still get it. I just give them my opinion on the unmeasurable performance difference between the swallow and the squash on most boards. I also believe that longboards of 9’6" and longer ride great with a single finbox in waves under 7’. Longboards don’t have to have the side fins in 4’ crumbling waves. Now, I’m sure there is a time and need for every design style known to modern shapers, but ask yourself if it’s going too far on the next board you begin to build: 7’ swallow tail with nose channels and a double concave, ending in the tail with a vee. Hmmm, “K.I.S.S.”
“I believe that a swallow tail design on a short or longboard is mostly for looks”…???. >>>>>>>> >>>> On a LB your right most LB work off rail design so tail has very little to do with there ride… Now i think Bob Person and his twin fins would say something different??? I don’t agree with SW tails and shortboards. They will add a little bit more bite allowing a wider tail to hold as the waves get bigger. I do believe you only benifit in small waves tough… Like a fish design would benifit with a SW over a SQ or round tail… The added release between the tips helps hold your tail from sliding out… Hence a Lis Fish would suck if not for the deep Fish tail… I choose to shape a squash or rounded square tail on these boards for a more functional design.>>>>>>>> >>>>I agree that for a all around board it should be what i call a Rip Stick the basic 6’2 squash. As the boards get bigger i move to a RP say for a 6’6 and bigger. Cause as the waves get bigger ( overhead ) i want more release and holding power thru a turn. Who needs lift when the waves are overhead. I’m sure there is a time and need for > every design style known to modern shapers, but ask yourself if it’s going > too far on the next board you begin to build: 7’ swallow tail with nose > channels and a double concave, ending in the tail with a vee. Hmmm, > “K.I.S.S.” >>>>>>>>> It would work with the right flex??? and Rocker??? try it??? I do agree with Keep it simple… But to Stupid??? Stupid is not looking for the missing link to make a door work?..>>> Not to be rude to anyone who has posted a technical question, theory, or > idea lately, but what ever happened to the “K.I.S.S.” > principle?: “Keep It Simple Stupid”. I believe that it also > applies to surfboard design. No modern surfer wants to ride a crude > popsicle stick or a tree trunk, but then again, if it works? I like to > take the basic proven design theories and incorporate them on my boards. > For example, I believe that a swallow tail design on a short or longboard > is mostly for looks. I choose to shape a squash or rounded square tail on > these boards for a more functional design. However, If the customer wants > it, they still get it. I just give them my opinion on the unmeasurable > performance difference between the swallow and the squash on most boards. > I also believe that longboards of 9’6" and longer ride great with a > single finbox in waves under 7’. Longboards don’t have to have the side > fins in 4’ crumbling waves. Now, I’m sure there is a time and need for > every design style known to modern shapers, but ask yourself if it’s going > too far on the next board you begin to build: 7’ swallow tail with nose > channels and a double concave, ending in the tail with a vee. Hmmm, > “K.I.S.S.” http://surfnwsc.com
Rob, Definitely a twinzer fish design benefits from a large swallow tail. That is an exception for sure. “Keep It Simple Stupid” is just an old design saying / belief that we really should change to “Keep It Simple, Shaper”.>>> “I believe that a swallow tail design on a short or longboard is > mostly for looks”…???. >>>>>>>>>>> I choose to shape a squash or rounded square tail on these boards for a > more functional design.>>>>>>>>>>> I’m sure there is a time and need for>>> I do agree with Keep it simple… But to Stupid??? Stupid is not looking > for the missing link to make a door work?..
Rob, Definitely a twinzer fish design benefits from a large swallow tail. > That is an exception for sure. “Keep It Simple Stupid” is just > an old design saying / belief that we really should change to “Keep > It Simple, Shaper”. After 40 years I have seen lots off stuff come and go and be revived again.I pretty much think that all boards work no matter what the shape.Depends on the surfer.A guy like Tudor will rip on anything you give him.After the basics its really a mental thing.Lemme tell ya a story. Once I shaped a team board…he was in the room with me and I did what he wanted.He rode it and hated it.I did another one…same deal…it sucked.At this point I was gettin irate.So next I took the original board…sanded off the pinlines and did another color theme…It was the best board he had ever ridden.A mental thing…R.B.
After 40 years I have seen lots off stuff come and go and be revived > again.I pretty much think that all boards work no matter what the > shape.Depends on the surfer.A guy like Tudor will rip on anything you give > him.After the basics its really a mental thing.Lemme tell ya a story. Once > I shaped a team board…he was in the room with me and I did what he > wanted.He rode it and hated it.I did another one…same deal…it sucked.At > this point I was gettin irate.So next I took the original board…sanded > off the pinlines and did another color theme…It was the best board he > had ever ridden.A mental thing…R.B. Not to knock those that have the capibility to generate the numbers, but I have seen matrixes posted here with the numbers running out to the ten thousandths of an inch. On the other hand, most of the suscribers to Swaylocks are in the league of “how do I get the skin off the blank”? Now I don’t have any tools in my arsenal that could possibly let me lay out a plan shape or rocker foil/thickness to a ten thousandth of an inch, let alone keep it to those tolerances. As they say, “if you can dazzle them with brilliance, bafffle 'em with bullshit” Yes, keep it simple.
Not to be rude to anyone who has posted a technical question, theory, or > idea lately, but what ever happened to the “K.I.S.S.” > principle?: “Keep It Simple Stupid”. I believe that it also > applies to surfboard design. No modern surfer wants to ride a crude > popsicle stick or a tree trunk, but then again, if it works? I like to > take the basic proven design theories and incorporate them on my boards. Your “Basic proven design theories” is always in a fluid state. It changes because new ideas are tried, and out of them comes the 1% that sticks and becomes a “proven design theory” to the next generation. What’s different today is that becasue of the internet, more surfers are privvy to what’s being dicked around with in backyards. Back in the mid 50’s when Harold Walker and Dave Sweet and Hobie and Clark were developing foam – and experiencing a 95% failure rate – surfers of the day didn’t know about it. And when foam was released to the public it was scorned. “Plastic is spastic” was the K.I.S.S. of the day. I’m guessing you use foam when you build boards, right Grant?
“if you can dazzle them with brilliance, bafffle 'em with bullshit” Just deliver… K.I.S.S “Keeping It Simple Surf” http://surfnwsc.com
Yes Paul, I’m a proud shaper of foam with wood stringers. Sometime in the near future, I’ll venture into the shaping of wood boards. And while I’m entering that new venture, I’ll defintely use the “K.I.S.S.” principle.>>> Your “Basic proven design theories” is always in a fluid state. > It changes because new ideas are tried, and out of them comes the 1% that > sticks and becomes a “proven design theory” to the next > generation.>>> What’s different today is that becasue of the internet, more surfers are > privvy to what’s being dicked around with in backyards. Back in the mid > 50’s when Harold Walker and Dave Sweet and Hobie and Clark were developing > foam – and experiencing a 95% failure rate – surfers of the day didn’t > know about it. And when foam was released to the public it was scorned. > “Plastic is spastic” was the K.I.S.S. of the day.>>> I’m guessing you use foam when you build boards, right Grant?
Yes Paul, I’m a proud shaper of foam with wood stringers. Sometime in the > near future, I’ll venture into the shaping of wood boards. And while I’m > entering that new venture, I’ll defintely use the “K.I.S.S.” > principle. That’s great. There’s nothing wrong with making boards you know will work. But try to keep in mind that this is a surfboard design forum. New ideas, however good or bad they turn out to be, are encouraged to be discussed here.
Right On, Paul. Let’s keep up with new ideas and keep on building boards. We have to keep the surfing life style and demand for custom shaped boards alive.>>> That’s great. There’s nothing wrong with making boards you know will work. > But try to keep in mind that this is a surfboard design forum. New ideas, > however good or bad they turn out to be, are encouraged to be discussed > here.
You know what I think is ironic about this thread? That there’s two distinct value structures to what we’re talking about. “Keeping is simple” as it relates to construction, and “keeping it simple” as it relates to riding. One of the great joys of riding flexible surf craft are that they are so simple to ride. There’s a minimum of body gyrations, butt protrusions and neck whiplash in getting where you want to go on a wave. So maybe the complexity of certain designs is there in an attempt to achieve simplicity where it really counts…in the water.
Right On, Paul. Let’s keep up with new ideas and keep on building boards. > We have to keep the surfing life style and demand for custom shaped boards > alive. Agreed!
I guess we could all ride flat bottom single fins with a nice flowing rocker. How simple is that? OK, that’s it. I guess we can all go home now! TW
…Those who can,do. Those who can’t… … …kiss
Now Herb. There is still much to be said for beautifully handcrafted, proven & simple surfboard designs. Not all boards have to be rocket powered in order to perform well. The rider must still provide some learned skills in order for a board to really take-off. I have to go now and “K.I.S.S.” my blank now. I know that I’m totally settin’ myself up for a good "Kiss My A-- joke here! Oh well.>>> …Those who can,do. Those who can’t…>>> …>>> …kiss
Rob, Definitely a twinzer fish design benefits from a large swallow tail. > That is an exception for sure. “Keep It Simple Stupid” is just > an old design saying / belief that we really should change to “Keep > It Simple, Shaper”. I’ve always though K.I.S.S. meant “Keep It Straight and Simple”. Pierre
Herb,sounds like you climbed from the high chair straight onto the high horse well done tiger.
Herb,sounds like you climbed from the high chair straight onto the high > horse well done tiger. Tiger??? What guy calls another guy “Tiger”? Grrrr! I am a true KISS fan: I Wanna Rock & Roll All Night, & Party Every Day!!!
Now Herb. There is still much to be said for beautifully handcrafted, > proven & simple surfboard designs. Not all boards have to be rocket > powered in order to perform well. The rider must still provide some > learned skills in order for a board to really take-off. I have to go now > and “K.I.S.S.” my blank now. I know that I’m totally settin’ > myself up for a good "Kiss My A-- joke here! Oh well. …There’s nothing wrong with simple,I like simple,things just get complicated all by themselves. Grant, it should all flow in your craft,I think the biggest mistake a novice builder can do is cluster f*** themselves(including my earliest works)by putting too much into a shape(this usually causes massive over shaping),and glassing in some cutlap dark tint,with lines,etc. …You have to learn how to paddle before you can catch a wave…And as you know that’s only the beginning.(no kiss my a** jokes today).Herb
…I will take that as a great compliment coming from you,hope all is good for you. p.s. I like the name Tiger…as my dad said,“It’s a symbol of inner strength”.Herb