I’m 190 lbs 5’11" and want to make a short wide thick board for small weak waves. I want good buoyancy for easy paddling and reduce stalling on the face . Stable tail in white water, able to glide well, able to turn well, even able to nose ride, a short long board.
I have in mind 8’ long 26" wide at dead centre, 21" a foot from the nose and tail, continuous plan curve - no parallel rails, very wide square tail 14 - 16", rounded nose, 3.5" thick dead centre, continuous low rocker (or flatter in the mid section?), 2" in the tail, 4" in the nose, so 1.5" thick in the tail (volume in the tail for white water buoyancy & stability?), 1" thick in the nose, completely flat in the bottom except for a vee in the tail starting 18" back ending at the tail end with 0.5" vee to improve turning. Soft 50/50 rails all round except maybe a bit eggy in the nose and a bit of sharpness in the tail area. Domed or stepped deck to reduce rail chunkiness and give it more speed but maintain buoyancy. The volume would be approx. 3.75 cubic feet. Single fin, thin raked (7 - 9"?) in a standard position box. Would a twin fin setup improve turning but create drag and impede glide? Not so sure about any form of fish tail so prefer wide square tail.
I can’t get a suitable PU blank with enough width and thickness unless I buy an expensive SUP blank, waste a lot of foam and weaken it. I can get high density XPS sheets 8’ x 24" x 3" cheap which I can cut into rockered strips and epoxy together. Laminate and hotcoat with epoxy, possibly add a PE gloss coat for a smooth finish to improve glide and a bit of extra weight if necessary. What sort of weight in terms of wave function?
That is absurdly wide. Clearly if you are designing a board like this you don’t care about doing big carves. Nose rider’s nose is typically around 18", center around 24" and tails around 16". If you want to catch a lot of waves and have a blast in tiny waves, just make a fairly classic longboard. 9’8"x 24"x 3 1/4" with an 18" nose and a tail around 16". put some hip in the tail. Keep the nose rocker under 4" and the tail rocker under 6" a little belly most of the length, maybe some concave or flat in the nose, a big pivot fin. You can easily turn them with the rocker in the tail and the hip. So much fun.
If you are limited in length to 8 ft, there is an awkward limbo stage between 7ft-9ft where a board is too short to effectively noseride and too long to be a super maneuverable shortboard.
Thanks for this Riderofwaves. In hindsight this makes sense. I thought I could maintain planing area by increasing width whilst decreasing length. OK it doesn’t have to nose ride. Even if its wide I thought the tail vee would be a good way to increase turning. Admittedly it does seem stranded between a large fish and trad noserider. Possibly as an ex-short boarder who loves longboards now I was thinking of something smaller to play around with but perhaps that has to be either a fish or a longboard with a loose turning tail and fin. I see guys trying to surf with small SUPs and they go like slugs. Possibly I have been thinking about this design after reading “How to build your first surfboard” by Stephen Pirch. see Small Wave Design
Had a friend who made an XPS epoxy board on these lines but the rocker was wrong, the rails too parallel and it just did not paddle or turn properly despite its stability. I wanted to improve on this.
If you’re really looking for turnable volume in a short length perhaps something like the Squish by ACE. 8ft long semi-Simmons design with a quad setup.
P.S. if you only weight 190 you’re going to have a tough time turning any board with the kinds of dimensions you’re talking about, regardless of how you set it up.
there is a point where it doesn’t matter, even with all the curve in the world, there is too much width to turn a board. That mini simmonsesque board looks like it may work for you, but if you want a grovelling board that can turn, one can’t really beat incorporating some fish design elements, wide flat thick and short. For some one your size I would recommend a fish like the zipifish around 5’10" I think you will be really surprised at how easily that board will catch waves.
I like the Squish! The proportions look good! Perhaps I have gone ridiculous on the widths. I have after all been surfing for over 40 years and wondering why I need to make a floating patio. Do you know what the Squish dims are?
The Zippifish looks good too. Had a look at the website.I may be 52 but if I can skateboard and ride a streetsurfer surely I can throw the fish around. The last time I consistently rode a shortboard was 10 years ago. That was a 7’2" x 19.75" x 2.75" pintail thruster that was custom made for me for Jeffreys Bay. I used to able to fly down the line and get barrelled on it at Supers but now I can’t even stand up on it or paddle it properly. I have tried a few guy’s shortboards but they must have been the wrong ones. Just need to find the right one for me. Trouble is I was spoilt for waves living in South Africa and now live in the UK. Different surf different boards. I love riding noseriders but need something short in my quiver.
ACE posts here under that name - you could try asking him directly. If you look around on ACE’s website I’m sure you’ll see some dimensions. He seems to make them in almost all lengths. I do know they carry a lot more volume than conventional shortboards or even longboard-based designs of comparable length.
As for catching ripples, after a certain point it becomes the archer, not the arrow.
You'd be surprised how short you can go. Im 5'9"" ( almost!! ) and 80kgs ( 180lbs? ) and just finished a 5'8'' x 17n x 21 x 17t x 3 thick eggy board. 4x44 glass job, and it paddles fine. Only had the one surf on it, but, even though it is wide thick flat rockered and a twin keel, it ( so far ) seems pretty easy to turn.
I say get a Mini-Simmons shaped around 6 foot. I’m 6’4" 200 LBS without my 5/4 full suit on and I ride a 6’x22.5"x.3" with no problem…and I’ve been riding it in overhead beach break and it turns like magic and paddles like an 8’0" longboard.
I’m making
a board that meets your specs fairly close. 7’-6”x 26”x4” thick.Tail is 18” and nose is 20.5” (measured 12”
in).I also plan on some pinched in 60/40
rails and adding more dome to the deck. I’m adding vee in the tail and leaving
the bottom flat. I’m 225lbs surfing fresh water in some very soft breaks. Greg Knoll is quoted in Sways “until you catch
the wave, nothing else matters”. That pretty much defines my design priorities.
I do think the 26” width will hinder my ability to turn and I’m trying to
compensate with the vee and rails. My other board is 10' so turning has to improve. The joy of making a board is making a very specific
design for a local wave or person and this means it’s not going to look like
what the current surfboard design paradigm calls for.
Greg was talking about riding big waves. George Greenough said “what do you want to do surf or paddle?” Unless you have some monkey arms, a 26" board is almost too wide to carry. I have a 6’ wingspan, and my 23" wide noserider is pretty uncomfortable. The 24" wide resuce boards at work have handles, without them, forget it, especially if the board is thick. If you want paddling, length will go farther than width in helping paddling. Racing paddleboards arn’t all that wide. There is a point of diminishing returns with every design feature. If a board is too short it won’t hold through turn. Too narrow and the board will sink(monster waves excluded) Too much V in a board and it spins out, too much concave and the board drags ass. BY ALL MEANS SHAPE WHAT YOU WANT, just trying to point you in a direction so you don’t shape a dog and waste all that money on a board doesn’t work.
After some deliberation and research I’ve decided to make a Mini Simmons.
I like the feel of the shape, how I see them perform in footage I’ve watched and I think this is the board I’m looking for at the moment. I have a 9’2" Burford PU blank that came from a stripped windsurfer board. Last night I jumped in the deep end and cut off from the tail and nose to give me a provisional ms blank. 6’2" x 23" x 3.25" - nose and tail 20". I have reversed the blank so that there is virtually no rocker in the tail and mid section. There is a lot of foil and weight towards the nose but if I increase the rocker to about 3.5" and reduce the volume then it looks like I have potential mini simmons. The rails are quite inherently sharp and turned down so hopefully I can get those softened without losing too much width. I will also need to deal with plastic fittings in the deck. If the shaping works out I will glass it otherwise treat it as a learning experience and get a proper blank.
I think I will start a new project thread. Thanks guys for the advice.
Although I’m lighter than you (135lbs) I have a 6’ simmons shape that would be great for you. I can hang 5 on it and do everything else I’ve wanted to do on it. It’s 23" wide at the widest and I can see how anything wider could have some adverse effects. My tail is 17" and after riding it, I kind of wish it was around 13" or so. But yeah, great board, a lot of fun; I would highly suggest a mini simmons shape.
Great. I think my next mini simmons will be under 6’ with a narrower tail and probably less volume. It seems you can very much push the dims on these boards to the limit. How much rocker do you have on the nose? I would like to see your simmons
