you may want to consider a "pig" outline
9.6 to 9.8 long
AaaaaHaaaa.....6'3" and very fit. It does matter........I'm a miget compared to you......After reading your last two posts I think you already know what you are going to shape. I had and interesting discussion with a guy the other day about reverse rocker on a Log.....Hmmm got me thinking.....well,,,, I'm riding the speed egg for now, because it's new and it works for me....and I have three logs with different rocker and rails that I'm testing...when the waves suck...wish I had answers for you........Having fun is key.................
Stingray
Wouter - the SWT and JNSP models look/sound really compelling - thanks for he link to JP (who I don’t know).
Herb - just looking for some real design info from the site that has always been the place to go get design input, that’s all.
I agree with you: exploration and experimentation are keys to all things learned - and I’d love to build/try/build/try ad infintum, but I’m not going to re-prioritize my time and commitments to go that route for some years yet. If I were, I probably would have started the thread with “Hey I want to shape my own noserider…”
If you have some thoughts as to my design question - I’d like to hear them. Peace.
Thanks guys - appreciate the follow up ideas and comments re: what you’re riding, what you’d suggest (etc). With 30 years of sliding on (mainly) shortboards and working with my shaper on lots and lots of customs over that time, I understand there are tradeoffs to every 16th inch of foam you leave or take away in any direction. My experience with LBs has been from the shortboard-moving-up projection, hence my lack of design knowledge on what constitutes a well-performing noserider. The high-perf LB is much easier to understand and translate when talking plan shape, foil, rocker, bottom, rails…
With the noseriders, so much of what is in the major label product mixes these days sounds like “just like the 10’6"s we rode at Doheny in '61 - get the feeling back today!”. Well I’ve seen those boards being ridden (straight) and as mentioned I’ve tried a couple 10’ boards and they were pigs when it came to placing them in the pocket with finesse, changing the rail set or slipping it, turning them, stuffing them - just big, stiff pieces of fiberglass for beginners or intermediates with no feel or sensitivity to go with that positive lock a good noserider has when you’ve got it stuffed and are moving about up on the tip. Could I balance on the tip of those 10’ piggies all day and across any section? Yeah. Could I do a clown shuffle? Yeah. Could I do a headstand? Yeah. But does any of that hold interest for me? No.
Hence my question about stuffing some of whatever design elements allows for a good noserider into a 9’2" (or maybe a little longer, say 9’6" or less) package that when walked back on and worked from the tail will come around. I’ve seen traditional-looking noseriders work in shorter lengths like a 9’2" - but with a 135 pound scrapper on it. And although yes - I am a very fit and able 6’3" 200#er with the mass, leverage and skill to “work” a huge board - the reason I’m looking to go shorter is simple: rail length and swing weight. Each inch you add on a LB you basically add right at the middle of the board so from a swing weight and (relatively) straight planshape perspective (both of which hugely affect turning ability) a 10’ feels MUCH longer than a 9’6", which in turn feels MUCH longer than a 9’0" of course. This board is about cruising, getting groovy, having fun and enjoying design elements that allow it to perform well under dancing feet - not heel-denting amounts of grunt.
If that’s possible, of course! And it may not be - but here I am getting good feedback from most of you, so thanks - and keep it coming if you’d like to add more! I am checking out all these ideas…
maki ,
i know you think i was pulling you chain,but nothing could be further from the truth.
i got into building my own boards primarily because of what i said in the first place.
i've paid my dues.................for my reward............
i've built and owned some of the best boards to ride on this planet !
as far as in my face.............i wouldn't recommend that to anyone........
...these days.........i try to get along with everyone.........and will walk away more times than stand my ground..........but in the line of duty......... to...........my family,friends,job,country............i'm undefeated.............that says it all.
herb
Makakio
You are basically describing a performance noserider…
Hobie site: 9ft2319nose*14 tail 2.75 thick for waves 6ft and under, they were the first google result
Are you going to shape it yourselves?
If not, do you have cash? http://www.jimthegenius.com/Jim_Phillips_Surfboards/The_Medium.html = classic 60’s shape dialed in as only the Genius can. The bottom features a huge 24” deep dish, or blended concave for lift that is perfectly paired with the long and low rocker which exits the tail with a slight kick. The bottom contours aft of the concave show a subtle roll allowing the JP to softly settle into the wave. Full, soft, 50/50 rails from nose to tail are foiled to keep some thickness up front while tapering in the rear for sensitivity. The result is a serious nose rider that performs – this is no one trick pony and will not be branded like with others as a stiff, “water pusher.” Hang your heels today.
Let us know what you settle for!
OK, you weigh 200 pounds. Big deal. Are you 6'3" trim and fit or 5'4" short and fat? If you can ride the High Perf longboard the way you talk you need to think Speed Egg. Look in "Quiver Mag" or what used to be called the Photo Archives. Look for surfboards shaped by Resinhead and KeithMelville in the 7' to 8'11" range.
Remove all the fins from the HPLB. Start a fin quiver. A single fin quiver. Try a nine inch fin in your nine foot board. Start with a fin with lots of base and a nice rake.... and when you're ready to shape your own.....
Listen to Herb........
Stingray
My Best noserider is a late 60’s Weber Performer.
9’ 3" or 9’ 4" cant remember, and so wide I can only get the tips of my center 3 fingers around the rail to carry it. Probably 24.5 inches minimum. Getting on the nose is like standing on the edge of a picnic table that has a bag of concrete on the other end. Real low rocker, very wide square tail. About 30 lbs. This thing actually turns pretty well too. Can be turned sharper than my 9’7" round pin, but the round pin carries the speed, which I prefer. I rode the shit out of it 20+ years ago when I got it, and bust it out a few times a year now just to reminisce and to keep any notions of those progressive moves out of my longboarding.
I surfed it once when DT was in the water. I was ignorant to who it was, but he asked me what I was riding. After letting hin fondle it, he said there was a good chance he shaped it. Then I put 2 and 2 together as to who I was talking with.
My favorite L board was heavily influenced by his modern but traditional shapes
[quote="$1"]
@ Herb: wow man, like toooootally. peace out and karmic delights on your path to enlightenment, brother.
@ Huck: thanks for the ideas and pulls. As mentioned, I'm not looking for anything less than 9'2" in this noserider, but there's some interesting concepts there to be sure.
@ WRC: appreciate the measurements and planshape / rail info. I think a 9'6" / 9'7" might work and I'm in full agreement that this one is for more trad surfing with trad style, flow and real walking.
Still interested if anyone wants to opine about whether a great noserider outline and foil can be had in the 9'2" range - that will work for a 200lb guy. Or if I'm going to end up 9'6" ++
[/quote]
haha i'd like to see you say that smart arse comment to herbs face. Actually, i'd like to see the aftermath of you saying that to his face.
what is a "trad board"? That's a new term for me.
I think you’re going to end up at 9’6"++. And why is that such a bad thing exactly? In my experience getting the right feel and the most performance out of a traditional longboard is dependent on a fairly narrow range of length relative to one’s body weight. I don’t think adding width and/or thickness in order to obtain a shorter board is the answer.
At 200lbs, you should be able to “work” a 10 foot board, assuming you have the experience/technique. I would recommend coming down in increments from 10’, rather than trying to come up from 9’2".
@ Herb: wow man, like toooootally. peace out and karmic delights on your path to enlightenment, brother.
@ Huck: thanks for the ideas and pulls. As mentioned, I’m not looking for anything less than 9’2" in this noserider, but there’s some interesting concepts there to be sure.
@ WRC: appreciate the measurements and planshape / rail info. I think a 9'6" / 9'7" might work and I'm in full agreement that this one is for more trad surfing with trad style, flow and real walking.
Still interested if anyone wants to opine about whether a great noserider outline and foil can be had in the 9'2" range - that will work for a 200lb guy. Or if I'm going to end up 9'6" ++
9' 6" sounds just right for you.
I’m 220 lbs, 5’11" and my favorite Longboard is 9’7" x23" x3 old school single fin round Pin. 23 pounds.
Flatter nose rocker, extra tail rocker. Shallow nose concave to rounded midships to a 3/16" V peaking at Finbox. Rails 90/10 in the nose blended to 60/40 mid rail to 80/ 20 in the tail, no shortboard edges. Ride it in everything from ankle high to a few feet overhead, and have yet to use a leash with it. Not the best nose rider but I spend more time trimmed 2/3 to 3/4 up the nose than 90% of the longboarders I see in these parts.
I prefer to keep my shortboard and longboard elements further apart. I am not into the crossover elements, or really watching a longboard being exclusively tailsurfed and only walked (shuffled) when rider starts losing the wave as seems to be the norm by far too many, but to each their own, and more waves for me,
Cyclo - Doug and Michel are great LB shapers. So are Ward and Bob P.
Any of them could recommend and make a great board for me no question
and I’ll likely go one of them for this board. But I’m interested in understanding design
possibilities (and the tradeoffs involved), which is why I asked the
question here. Could I go to them and chew their ear about design?
Sure - they’d humor me. But I tend to think this is a more appropriate
(and let’s face it: broader) forum for a discussion like that. You can
opine if you want or walk away. That’s the internet, right? Thanks for the msmts on your Haut - that sounds like an interesting board.
Thank you Bill - appreciated!
And thanks for the link, Sting!
I don't think I qualify as a foil guy, since I don't even know what one is LOL.
it all depends on what you're willing to settle for.
there's give and take in any,,,, board vs. person.
only you can really make that choice.
and hopefully it will be a good one.
if not.
learn by it and progress.
that's it in a nutshell.
herb
Thanks guys - appreciate the input.
Huck - that’s pretty consistent with what I’m thinking too - pinched or hard releases and the soft/round suck water. So in a trad LB with noseriding capability I think there’s going to be a compromise to be made. The more I read here (this thread and others), it sounds like:
I’m headed into 9’6" territory to get the foil/thickness/rail aspects rights - and a wide point set back (is that called a “pig?” “egg?” I’ve just been calling huge, planky boards that have no sensitivity pigs or logs - but it sounds like pig actually refers to an outline shape of some sort).
Rail shape in the tail (release or suction compromise) TBD
Tail shape (wide square or wide round - thinking round for the rail to rail smoothness but square offers release and lift - tradeoffs?) TBD
Bottom contour (teardrop in the nose for lift seems to be the consensus and v-panels in the tail come recommended with the wide point back) TBD
That’s all ‘To Be Discussed’, so please feel free!
By the way - that EH looks not too dissimilar from the 9’0" HPLB I currently ride. Fun board to be sure but I think that thing at 3-6’ would be the call. Smaller than that and (on mine at least) I BOGGGGG if I’m walking it and not within about a 3’ sweet spot haha…
Yes, a pig is a longboard design and it’s most notable characteristic is the wide point aft on the outline. Most have a sub 17" nose and a relatively wide tail. Personally I don’t care for nose concave but that is a very personal choice. Others swear by them. I really like the looks of the Michel Junod Pignar model, might order one someday as my favorite log was shaped by him. Check out this pig blog: http://surfapig.blogspot.com/