Hi All - kind of a basic question but would appreciate some feedback on it as my ideas seem to go counter to practice in one regard:
First, I'm looking for a singlefin noserider. A round-tailed, soft-railed thing that I can ride as a more-traditional board (read: walk, drop-knee, get stylie). But I want to work it - I'm not looking for a set-it-to-auto-glide-and-don't-consider-cutting-back beast. It needs to turn. I ride shortboards 50% of the time and a high-perf 9'0" 2+1 LB the balance of the time here in Santa Cruz, so this will be my waist-high-and-smaller cruiser for the many, many many days we have to ride smaller stuff. Key: I am 200lbs dripping wet in my 4/3.
Buildup: I see a lot of these 'noseriders' for people of 200lbs being advertised in 10'2", 10'4", 10'6" lenghts. I've ridden a 10' board and while one might be thrilled to have the ability to catch open-ocean rolling swells on them the lack of turning ability on a 10' tank and the set-it-and-forget-it glide angle of a one-trick-pony isn't appealing. I don't want to perch all day up on the tip through fat sections at the expense of being able to turn a board - being on the tip (properly) is about getting up there when your rail is sucked down tight in the curl and then having to get back down the board when it drives out, right?
The Question: Can a person of my weight find a wide-tip, well-performing noserider in the 9'2" / 9'4" range? My 9'0" high-perf LB has a fairly drawn-in nose, down rails and fairly agressive rocker. I can ride it from 2/3 way up the tip on waist-high waves all the way to 10-12' (it really shines in 5-8' surf, actually). But it BOGS when I'm up on that nose at waist high. Really precarious at best.
So again: from a foam/foil perspective do I really need to go so loooong per my weight to get a good, responsive singlefin trad board I can noseride -- or can enough foam be squirreled away in a working outline and foil to keep the length manageable??
If any of you would care to suggest models or measurements I'd be really appreciative.
I find pinched rails loosen up a board for me, as opposed to thick chunky rails. My nine footer has slightly pinched rails, although I've been told I could have thinned them even more. I just rolled the bottom up a bit to meet the rails, to get some foam out of the rails. Otherwise the bottom is flat, with a bit of V out the tail.
Years ago I had a Space Vehicles board from Gary Baker, a shaper down in Solana Beach, that had these real chunky hard down rails, and riding that thing was like riding an SUP (at least, the way I imagine riding an SUP would be, LOL).
Ray - your board, from the photos, reminds me of an Emilio Hernandez (a backyarder IIRC) longboard I photographed in Ventura awhile back - thin rails, more rocker and less volume than the old school longboards (like mine), eggish shape. I thnk this was a 9 footer, and the guy riding it looked to be about 150 lbs.
Not a noserider per se, but I took several photos because the thing was very nimble, and a real wave magnet. Small, mushy day, and this guy was just catching everything that came his way, getting fun ride after fun ride, while everyone else just sat around waiting for a set that never came, or bogging in the mush.
Hello Makakio.....There's no right answer...I just see you on a nice speed egg....So.....I have a nice 9'3" log / egg that might be right up your ally....It started as a gun blank I got in a Swaylocks deal.....Resinhead got the step sister to my blank. He's a funny guy. I met him through another Swaylocks deal....anyway......There's more than one way to skin a cat....I don't have the numbers but most people say the board has too much rocker , the rails are too pinched and the tail is wrong.....I don't care... Works for me!!!
You see Huck, I suppose that's one dickish way of interpreting all of my 'please keep ideas coming" requests. I don't think I've said or demonstrated that I'm "clearly not interested" in ideas or "any" design ideas outside of 9'6". My question was about getting some of that 10+ soft-railed, round-tailed nose-poser attributes into something closer to a 9'2" (or at most maybe a 9'6") with more sensitivity than those 10'+ 3.5" thick pigs. I think that's a fair design question and if someone suggests going with a wide tail block to get x or y attributes or that egg rails on the tail is the only way to get enough suck at that length. And as mentioned, I'm open to ideas.
So while you seem to be a SuperPoster at this site, if you don't want to participate in this forum's discussion then please don't, but don't try to shut down or shoot down the conversation by being unnecessarily negative.
[/quote]
OK, duly noted. No harm intended, it was just an observation. Carry on. =)
You see Huck, I suppose that’s one dickish way of interpreting all of my ‘please keep ideas coming" requests. I don’t think I’ve said or demonstrated that I’m “clearly not interested” in ideas or “any” design ideas outside of 9’6". My question was about getting some of that 10+ soft-railed, round-tailed nose-poser attributes into something closer to a 9’2" (or at most maybe a 9’6") with more sensitivity than those 10’+ 3.5" thick pigs. I think that’s a fair design question and if someone suggests going with a wide tail block to get x or y attributes or that egg rails on the tail is the only way to get enough suck at that length. And as mentioned, I’m open to ideas.
So while you seem to be a SuperPoster at this site, if you don’t want to participate in this forum’s discussion then please don’t, but don’t try to shut down or shoot down the conversation by being unnecessarily negative.
Ace: thanks. What do the V-panels add to the design? Do they help with going wider in the tail or flatter with rocker?
I have kinda followed this too. At 6'3" 200lbs, I am the same height couple pounds more, you CAN get what you want in a 9' board. You just have to think different than a 9'er for a 165lb guy. Extra width a little more "hidden" thickness a little wider tail and I like flatter rocker with some V panels and "modern" rails in the tail. You get wave catching, noseriding, maneuverability that allows you to "use your size". Here is a link to some pictures of A MUCH BIGGER GUY on boards I have made from 7'3" to 10' that get thrown around pretty good. Hope this works...http://youtu.be/b-hw6zSvyuc .
...I'm interested in understanding design possibilities (and the tradeoffs involved), which is why I asked the question here.
[/quote]
OK, maybe I'm off, feel free to correct me if I am, but following this thread from the beginning, this is what I get: Its a discussion of design possibilities... As long as its not any design less than 9'2". And not longer than 9'6", preferably shorter. And as long as its a single fin, round-tailed and soft-railed. And not a pig. Something that will blend "the swing responsiveness and sensitivity of a 9'2", combined with the rail lock and tip stability of a 10' in a single foil".
I do kinda see where CycloX is coming from.
Since you have already chosen the length within a 4" window, have already decided on your fin configuration, have already decided on the rails and tail you want, have already decided on the performance characteristics desired, and are clearly not interested in discussing any design possiblities outside your chosen limits, and are not interested in shaping it yourself, it sounds like its time to head to your local shaper, and see what they suggest within your narrow parameters.
I think you basically want to take a proven noserider shape for your local conditions and your size, skill etc., and tweak a few details to keep it loose, and make it work within your chosen length range.
Your answer/solution can be found in post #3 of this thread. Go with 9' 7'' x 23'' Pig shape. Don't go wider than 17.5'' on the nose. If you can surf at all, that's plenty of nose to support you.
Since you aren’t shaping it anyway, why not saunter down to Haut or Junod? Both of them can and do make what you are looking for and know SC waves.
My favorite all around boards are a Haut 9’10"x17 5/16x23"x14 7/16", 3 1/2" thick and my HWS clone of it. Mostly 60-40, but a little harder in the tail. I love it with a 10" wingnut longrake, but a higher volume fin/lower rake fin will slow down those turns. Not a problem to turn, cutback, you gotta be right in the curl to hold you for the nose ride (at least in the slower point breaks I frequent) or you’ll zip ahead of the wave. I’d imagine it would be pretty close to what you are looking for. I’m pretty much exactly your size…and have a more traditional log that is only 2" longer that is much more of a turn’n’straight line.
StA - thanks for that. Good to know. Tradeoffs - egh…
Tony - that sounds pretty fantastic! And I agree - if you’re going to set the tail into the curl for max suck (usually by stalling and stuffing it), you need to be at the curl - and most small / gutless waves don’t reel down the line here so it’s a matter of having a board that you can get into the pocket. Which is where the sensitivity and turnin ability come in. Just not as easy to get a 10’, 35lb tank in and out of the curl. Hence my original post about going shorter, but still having a trad noserider planshape/foil design that allows for rail suck and tip stability.
Possible, or asking the SUV to get 40mpg?
Wide point back. Someone please chime in on Tony’s suggestion!
Wide point back and appropiate rocker can make a longer board feel shorter when surfing aft. A 9’4" with a wide point 6" back should feel similar to an 8’10" with wide point center. Am I right guys? I believe that turning is very important to set up for a noseride, I just sold a 9’10" Bing Silverspoon because I felt I wasn’t enjoying myself anymore on that board…
What were the dimensions on boards that did what you want well?
To answer your question, yes. Less suction = less stability in noseriding situations as a general rule. The more water releasing off the rail the less control you have, sort of.
Interesting post. You’ve read what I’ve posted and somehow come away assuming:
I don’t know how to longboard and haven’t ‘put in the time to learn’ how to noseride or drop knee, trim or cross-step
I want to blend a high-perf LB with a noserider
I want my noserider to surf top to bottom
Swingweight and increased wetted rail don’t affect turning radius
I don’t understand the simple joy of setting a rail and trimming
All wrong and looking back at my posts I’m scratching my head at how you arrived there. I’m actually a very good longboarder, but not as educated as I would like in noserider design. I do not want a blend - as mentioned I just want a sensitive, responsive, balanced noserider in a length shorter than the planky, piggish 10’+ “cruisers” that are marketed for 200lb guys out there - and which lack that rail sensitivity (which leads to being able to position in the pocket, stuff in the lip, slip the edge, adjust the trim angle from the tip, shape the turn, etc. These aren’t high performance modern longboard moves. They are as classic as they come but demand a sensitive board with finesse or a lot fo grunt if you’re on a 10’+ log. Given my skill I’m looking for the finesse angle.
That said, I’m digging on your shape/msmt suggestions, s-deck suggestion (etc) and have a question: adding release in the tail and getting away from a full-suction egg rail should loosen that end up a bit, right? So it’s tradeoff time - being able to slip edge, adjust angles, shape turns (etc) at the expense of suction for tip-work stability?
Been riding "noseriders" for about 8-9yrs almost exclusively. Here is what I have learned and a few questions for you. First the questions.
Why are you trying to take a planshape (noserider) and blend it with an HPLB? You wont get the best out of either shape.
Are you going to go out and look to set your rail in the pocket and walk to the nose and log some tip time or are you just gonna do it when it happens to present itself to you?
Since you are a shortboarder at heart, are you gonna put in the time to learn the techniques to doing the things that you are talking about? ie. noseriding, drop knee turns, trimming in the pocket, cross-stepping
Some observations from my shaping of "logs".
Tons of foam can be hidden in any planshape especially logs. Think stepdeck/ S deck.
A board built to surf in a classic sort of cruisy style, walking, noseriding and doin dropknees can be surfed in a top to bottom manner but why would you.
If I was shaping the board that you described (I wouldnt, because I like very classic LB's and dont like bastardizations) I would make a 9'6" x 19.5 x 23.5 x 17.75 x 3" straightish planshape with an 8 inch tailblock and plenty of kick in the tail. I actually shape all my noseriders reverse on the blank. I would put a slight teardrop concave in the nose running about 20" back and blend it into a sight v in the last 18" of the tail. Here is where I would go away from my classic log. I would make 60/40 down rails in the tail with a soft edge to give you a little realease in the tail as opposed to the eggy 50/50 rails I like. last of all I would put a 10.5" pivot fin in the box and let you figure out how to turn it.
Swingweight isnt something that needs to be considered too much in a LB because you dont use your strength to turn a longboard you use technique. Walk on back there on the tail block, drop that knee and turn your shoulders to where you want to go. Its not a whip. Its a turn.
Just get your log, learn how to ride it and let the fun ensue! Best feeling in the water.
T
BTW setting a line and trimming isnt such a bad thing if you give it a chance. Watch Tudor or Warren surf and tell me trimming is bad.
Sting - I still have no idea as to whether I can get the swing responsiveness and sensitivity of a 9’2", combined with the rail lock and tip stability of a 10’ in a single foil. Maybe the 9’6" is the compromise solution. Maybe that combo just can’t exist for a 200-pounder. I just don’t know. But the ideas you guys are offering are helpful, so keep 'em coming please!
