Its a working concept.
How do you feel about it ?
Names wont change it and will just create hostillity.
This post is about the concept.
Im speaking from a backyarders thoughts who is only just beginning. Ive been lucky to have been given some fantastic templates. But learning to translate these templates into a peice of foam is so bloody hard. It really makes you appreciate what you guys can do. Ive also started mucking around with the templates I was given, trying to come up with something, and that is a skill in itself I tell ya, not so easy, my first go looks really wrong so far.
So I do hear what you are saying greg. I do understand. Whats the point of designing if you cant shape (lol, thats me)' whats the point of shaping if you dont understand how to sand. whats the point of putting your name to something if it aint you on the big brands, its just ego.
It makes me think sometimes that I shouldnt be signing my name on my boards cause it aint my template, Im just trying to understand the curves and play with them and learn as much as I can
................ double post.................
You are being hands on in this process and learning while having fun .
Completly different and correct.
Keep it up.
Greg, if someone designs a board, shapes it and if it works well, said board may be mass produced via a machine. If the “designer” puts his name on it I have no problem with that, he designed a functional board. I may me misunderstanding this whole thing. You’re a pro and I’m not privy to some of that insider info but this crap happens in every business. People who didnt do shit get their name attached to things.
As far as machine cut boards go I think you guys need to get over it. It’s a great way to reproduce tried and true shapes if you have enough orders. The biggest problem I have with those things are guys scanning other boards, making a few tweaks and making their own model out of it.
You need to read what i have said here.
Get back to me then .
Greg
Edit
You don’t need to but it will clarify all you said and answer your questions .
Ok I get it now, signing your name to something you didn’t create is pretty lame. The original designer/shaper is either getting paid a lot, doesn’t care or is being duped.
I think you’re on to something, here, Cleanlines… Let’s do the “Signing 101” video.
next time you see one of those satelite pictures
of earth from space…look close down by the tip
of south america it’s signed. it says patagonia.
they erased my name.
when I get time
I’m gonna take steps to reinstate my signature.
and get the credit I deserve.
…ambrose…
who is this christo guy?
To concede on his arguement of insisting apples are indeed oranges
will only burn your lips with citrus oil biting into an orange is no way like biting into an apple.
A hand shape is a toil and is and should be considered diffrently from a machined industrial unit.
They aint the same…aint AINT AINT. are not areNOT ARENOT
.so You are old and too tired but you could if’n ya wanted to…bitchin dont forget your walking cane.
when I spend a week of walking how many miles screening sanding planing and mowing
I deserve more credit not a flippant biff shapes em in an hour perfect
every board I make is crooked it should cost more,maybe double
every tape line is asymmetrical every overlap is off every tail is…
maybe these should cost 4 times more surely the machine boards are
quite a bit easier to produce for the skilled producer KUDOS
hip Hip HOORAY.
Fill the order for 400 boards very simular
sell them for enough that you make money
400 people should appreciate them.
one board one man two hands
$4000 not unreasonable.
bite the apple chew up the skin
bite the orange spit out the burning skin
and wipe the oil ffrom the corners of your mouth.
pissing contest?
just dont piss on the seat
if you do ,sign your name.
Toilet seats by …ambrose…
no lights just the setting sun.
there are a couple of guys that have a shop on S.Coast Hwy. in Oceanside, they met in college and said, “why don’t we start a surfboard Co.”, neither can hand shape, thery got a copy AKU and a computer, now they “shape”, is this what you mean Greg ?
Templates, it doesn’t matter if they are clones of Kelly’s winning boards, don’t mean shit, it is the rest of the equation that really puts the board together,
Deck rocker, foil, bottom rocker, bottom configuration, rail shape, fin combination and placement.
I see on a daily basis, a guy stands a board up and drools over it’s “shape”.
In the early 70’s, when anti rocker was the rage, I built the most bitchin looking 7’2" round tail, carved all the rocker out of the tail so that it was flat from entry to tail tip. The board was a f’n mutant, You ever put your trucks on your skate board backwards ? lean left, turn right, this was the way the board rode, bitchin’ “shape” though
[quote="$1"]
Templates, it doesn't matter if they are clones of Kelly's winning boards, don't mean shit, it is the rest of the equation that really puts the board together,
Deck rocker, foil, bottom rocker, bottom configuration, rail shape, fin combination and placement.
I see on a daily basis, a guy stands a board up and drools over it's "shape".
In the early 70's, when anti rocker was the rage, I built the most bitchin looking 7'2" round tail, carved all the rocker out of the tail so that it was flat from entry to tail tip. The board was a f'n mutant, You ever put your trucks on your skate board backwards ? lean left, turn right, this was the way the board rode, bitchin' "shape" though
[/quote]
A statement so worthy of being repeated.
As a clarifier, SHAPE, TO ME, means the total of all elements. Rails, rocker, foil, as well as the outline. The OUTLINE, (template) is just that, the outline ONLY. As pointed out by Jim, a beautiful outline unsupported by an appropriate rocker, foil, and proper rails, will still be a dog. Think of SHAPE, as the TOTALITY, and you will be a long way toward understanding surfboard design.
Shaper A 's hands and elbows a bit shot these days after decades of hand grinding foam. Has invested mucho time in transferring his baselines shapes into machine files, Has worked with the customer for years, has records of all his boards.
After design discussion with customer, programs a little more nose volume, drops the tail rocker a tad, lightens up the concave a bit, runs
it through the machine, hand finishes the board with the exact blends
and edges required.
Shaper B has worked with the customer for years, has records of all his boards.
After design discussion with customer, hand shapes a board with a little more nose volume, drops the tail rocker a tad, lightens up the concave a bit, finishes the board with the exact blends
and edges required.
Both custom shaped for the rider, signed for same.
order #67213 comes into Lost for yet another 6’0 x 19.25 x 2.25 Rocket model, goes into the next 50 board machine batch,then out the door with Matt’s signature, who never got within 100 feet of the board from start to finish.
A & B = custom. Lost = popout.
Signatures, hand shaped, machine shaped - all background noise. Either you talked to the shaper and discussed your specific requirements and his solutions and are getting a custom board, or you’re buying a popout.
Just stating the obvious- its a a totally different world when it comes to making surfboards than just a few years ago. Almost anyone can ‘design’ a board and have it cut and and fake it. Its kind of hard to see a lifetime’s work marginalized by those who haven’t put in the time. Still the reward is in doing it. Same can be said about knowing when a spot is on. Some of us spent our lives figuring out when to go and where to go, and now there just may be a surfline camera there- oh well. Then there are the glory pigs who show up and whore it to the mags. Self-promotion seems to work for those who can master the illusion. Being older than most I have put in my time, yet try to look forward to the things I enjoy, which include shaping boards for people who appreciate them, and seeing or hearing the stoke, that lives on even when we aren’t here or there anymore. Here I try to share some of the stuff I have learned mostly the hard way. Have fun, and don’t take yourself too seriously, and I wrote that just for whomever the reader may be.
Great points by Jim. The “designed by” guys are just riding a trend. And it seems that they just come and they go. It takes years and years of commitment to “get somewhere” (whatever the hell that means) in this industry. Large fortunes become small ones constantly. The BASE fiasco is a good example of that.
Furthermore I’m pretty sure I know who the particular individual is that ruffled Gregs feathers. If we’re talking about the same person, it seems he’s quickly becoming not very popular around the Sugar Mill, and if you ask me that’s a bad way to be. All the real board builders know a chortle when they see one. Not a group to have on your bad side if you ask me. Office politics. 
-Carl
No one here. And no names needed for this concept discussion .
Not ruffled just puzzled by the acclaim as being a "designer " when you cant even make a computer program for the board and your shaper actaully makes the program himself as well as finishing it.
Its more about this concept now becoming possible and valid .
My future plans are not effected by this but this will take work from those who have earned it. And already has .
To clarify
At this time i do feel designing a working board on the computer does make you a board designer.
Its the new tool and is used in all other forms of designing.
I just read Ghettorats post and it was perfect.
Ive yet to see a machine that can design a board without human data input....also yet to see a machine that can produce a shaped board , they can get a blank close enough for a shaper to add the magic, yes, as long as that shaper can supply the data , or provide a board for scanning, Using someone elses data without permission is outright theft......I was talking to a shaper (designer) recently , who complained to me that he was pissed off with the quality of his machined pre-shapes.....so much so , that he told the cutter " no more work for you until you lift your game !".....so he skinned and shaped all his blanks the old way, faster than it took him to clean up sub-standard machined shapes. The most advanced computer in the universe is between yer ears........
[quote="$1"]
Knowaloha, I've shaped so many 10's of thousands of boards for the "big guys", never once did they want my name to appear anywhere on the blank.
I really pissed my wife off that they would then add the giant signature to it, I had to explain that the other giant signature they added to the lower right corner of the check each week spoke louder.
how's it go?, the bigger the slice of bread, the less shit you eat in a shit sandwich,
[/quote] That says a lot !.........dealing with the economic realities of life is first priority always....dues payed in full Jim Phillips !
Nice Rant
Off track but nice .
A can’t make B , has someone else design the program and finish B and A is the acclaimed Designer .