Can you claim this by having a shaper make programs and shape them for your label ?
Or by ringing lee over in china and asking for an order of rip off flyers?? Greg, when it comes to making money, some people will do ANYTHING to get their hands on some numbers in their account. Fuck that i say!
Very polular label .
Just saying who you work with would make this great.
Everyone has pride and needs some apreciation .
I have no objections to the ghost thing just this glorified claiming .
Not really happy posting this but its pretty wierd to me.
how do you feel about boards with no signature ?
for example none of the “stock” CI boards have signatures
rusty has a lam with his signature but are done by ghoastshapers
or all the JS boards made by Russ but have a “js” on them
I've had a few greg, what do you mean??
Aha, yes i thought i'd misunderstood your first post, but i re read your second and im sure i know what you mean. You mean people putting "designed by "insert surfer dude name" " but made by someone else?
One of my good friends who is much more into production than I am (no name here as I don’t want to embarass him in any way) and works for a big european company (no name here as I don’t want to embarass them in any way) told me the other day about someone who is a “surfboard designer”. His famous name appears on many boards (no name here, blah-blah-blah…) but my friend told me he knows for sure that the guy never ever touched a blank in his life…
This is the next step. Virtual surfboards. Up to now, you had guys who had been hand-shaping all their lives and who turned to computer-designing and CNC-shaped blanks in order to increase production or save time to do other things, but those guys were EXPERIENCED. I’m afraid that in the years to come we’ll see more and more pseudo-designers and I’m concerned about what the boards will look like…
My friend also told me that it had taken him a long time to master computer-designing as the end product often is quite different from what you see on the screen. Just like any other tool, it takes time to get used to it but, again, you have to know what a blank is…
I know i’m a bit off-topic here, but I thought it was related somehow, though.
Not really balsa, if an established shaper sets up a machine, does his “stock” models from it, I don’t think anyone would care. I wouldn’t. It’s the copycats with no understanding, in it for a quick buck that shits me
great topic. i know its thanksgiving day…but i hope more will give opinion on this. and this is not to say so we can have some sort of pissing contest… just would like to hear peoples opinions. the younger generation is not overly concerned for the most part that the shaper is in the background…as long as they get their Air Jordans w Michaels computer signature is what matters it seems
just an opinion
just an observation
warren
Seems people will claim about anything they want, and often people will buy…
On one hand there may be something to be said for a board “designed” by someone who knows what’s happening, and knows it’s a good design - then has others/machine shape it, and, I suppose a “good” designer would check out the finished product to make sure it met standards. Hell - most of us know “ghost shaping” started before some of us were alive…
But, what I suspect Greg, and others, are getting at is the mass produced stuff designed by “fill in the famous name.” And, what I would assert is, the fact that those boards are often not the highest quality… Then again, it seems many a board made in “production” mode is susceptible to a flaw here or there, and at times a major one which impact the longevity of the board.
(Here it comes… tuning up the old horn… Ha!) This whole thing is of course why I’m here and make my own.
…hello Balsa, I put this thread time ago that s related, check it:
No objection of the current business formula.
Ghost shaped Shaper Designed Boards.
You would have have a very negative life not accepting this.
These are all designed by a Shaper.
The machine is a great tool once you learn it.
The next step of a marketer having a shaper make the actual machine programs and finish them claiming and getting kudos for them as his designs is what i speak of.
No design skills at all being very accepted in this new age “Designer” .
This is a harmfull step for board builders.
Just sharing the credit would make this all good and much more respectfull to all - customers , workers, industry.
Real Designers in a Real World.
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Hope-Technology-Factory-Tour-Video.html
OFF TOPIC - Just to rant from Balsa’s comment:
“My friend also told me that it had taken him a long time to master
computer-designing as the end product often is quite different from what
you see on the screen. Just like any other tool, it takes time to get
used to it but, again, you have to know what a blank is…”
To really Master the CAD Method with CNC takes a lot of time and energy. When I went from Hand Shaping to Machine my shaping became worse at first. It took a few years to dial it all in. Plus calibrating a CNC Machine take a different set of Skills. Also if you are a Shaper/Designer/CAD/CNC Operator with Hand Shaping experience you will have relevance in today’s world of board building. Of course there are abuses like anything else in life. I still have my best templates in Masonite in my shaping bay. My Hitachi is still in good shape and there if I need it. However at 53 years old I would rather run my machine and make some money then be all self righteous and poor as hell. I have a machine and I love it. CNC/CAD is a great tool. I’ve seen the clueless ones with there files they designed from a free program they downloaded from the internet. The files are horrible and would take time to repair. Sure there are hackers in the CNC world just as there are hackers with a planner. Choose your tools and master them weather it be a Planner or a Cad Program with a CNC controller. Once you buy a good CAD program it will still take you some years to master it. Just because a board came off a machine done not make it a good board. The shape has to be well designed regardless if it is shaped by hand or with a machine. One more thing a finish shaper can destroy a well machined pre-shape. For example the LOST board are really well designed. Plus the Finish Shapers are really talented. Anyone of them can hand shape. The Shapers that have the big labels make a good product. Many of the Top Brands may have ghost shaper and CNC machines however the key to there success is the Designer/Shaper. The boards have to ride well or they won’t sell. OK having influential Team Riders help.
It’s all about good marketing once you have a good product.
They both go hand in hand!
Kind regards,
surfding
Perfectly on topic .
To have world wide recognition as a designer when you can’t even write the programs for your board label should not be the next step in board building.
Greg I agree with you!
well whopey do for the machine.
the computer shit has no bearing on someone walking in to a shaping bay and extracting his design from the foam
it takes a lot of time to develop this skill
and further more why is it so important to heap all the praise on the shaper’’
how many of these names up in lights can make a board from go to to the finished product themselves and have it pass the Q C test
so why not give more creed to those that do the real work
**and no matter how good the design is on the computer if its whats inn it will be copied all round the world by the rest of the cloning machines **
**lets get real here **
a big shout out to the glassers who have to put up with the cloners
a bigger shout out to the sander who can stuff the designer up very quickly
and lets not forget the gloss and polish skills when required
f###ing shapers overated by a long way?
** cheers huie
**
**
**
Knowaloha, I’ve shaped so many 10’s of thousands of boards for the “big guys”, never once did they want my name to appear anywhere on the blank.
I really pissed my wife off that they would then add the giant signature to it, I had to explain that the other giant signature they added to the lower right corner of the check each week spoke louder.
how’s it go?, the bigger the slice of bread, the less shit you eat in a shit sandwich,
A board shaped by a computer is just another board shaped by a computer. I think shapers that use them ought to put “shaped by computer” in big letters right after those fancy ass giant signatures they all use nowadays. Is there a Utube video showing how to sign your name on blank??? I still use tiny initials and feel left out.
Its amazing most here miss the concept of business i am speaking of .
No shaping skills . No computer shaping Skills , Acclaimed Designer.
Its Surfboard World and would not work anywhere else.
I fully accept it as all surfers suffer from salt water damage !
Do tell Mr. Griffin, who are you referring to?