Desparately Seeking a Fast FlatFinish Coat

Industry Talk
1

I’m thinking someone out there has a flat or satin coat that is a tough UV resistant clear quick drying wipeable or sprayable coating that is waterbased and can be used on boards that have been sande once without requiring them to b re hotcoated and fine sanded for the so called ‘team finish or pro finish’…or even having to spot hotcoat exposed weave then fine sand those areas.

I looked in some old threads and there was mention of a Dolphin Skin or Speed Coat but I doubt those are thick enough to cover exposed weave. I think Future straight or reduced with h20 won’t work but maybe I’m wrong…or maybe a flattening agent can be added…you tell me.

If something is out there that doesn’t yellow and isn’t a complete bummer when a board needs spot repairs I would love to hear about it…anything that speeds turnover and delivery and keeps a quality product going out is what I’m after.

Any ideas?

2

Ive never tried tis

but, maybe some kind of sanding sealer for wood, it comes in satin finnish

check different brands to see about uv protection and base properties

Deft is one brand that comes to mind

also maybe deck sealer???

3

Well, Varathane is an acrylic coating that comes in flat or satin…not sure on viscosity for spraying but you’d have to have a solid compressor and gun capable of shooting thicker mixes…although I have no idea what you would use if you needed to thicken it.

I s’pose I can try tests and also call their toll free number if there’s one on the can or internet…it would be nice to be able to just spray or swipe the board down and not have to go thru another step resanding for team finish…turnover baby, get paid sooner!

4

The seal skin or dolphin skin or what ever else they call these water based products wont cover up weave marks from sand throughs.

The only thing that I have found that seems to cover, and is uv stable are toxic petrochemical type finishes.

Acrylic clear lacquer, 2 pack clear, same day concrete sealer.

All have to be sprayed,brushed or rolled on, and are pretty nasty.

Maybe someone else has found a waterbased product that covers weave and is uv stable and water clear.

I always use an extra step and fill and sand laps before hotcoating, extra time, money and effort but well worth in the end as far as I’m concerned.

Nothing looks worse than a lap line of exposed weave in my opinion.

Regards

Daren.

5

I’ve only seen auto finishes work. Dolphine skin doesn’t do it, and is really expensive, the floor stuff works but takes more time adding mutiple coats than one quick shot with resin.

6

Entity and VPrav…yeah it’s a toughie…I just wanted to open this subject up to see if some brave soul stumbled upon some miracle material.

Ent…the extra step with the baste and sand before the hotcoat makes sense and yes, a lotta extra work initially then you’re home free afterwards.

I keep thinking there has got to be some UV resistant, no yellowing easy to apply acrylic that can go on with your choice of a flattening agent capable of filling weave, pinholes and scratches w/out having to do it our usual extra step way…and to go one step further I think this hard ultra clear acrylic filler could be used to fill th fine scratches on a gloss and polish then be buffed out aking the board look like a million bucks.

Someone might tell me "yeah but that acylic is just filling the scratches that your sanding didn’t get out before polishing…but if it stayed in place, was hard and non yellowing who even cares…we need a quick drying polishable hard acrylic that can jst be wiped in or brushed on, then wiped and polished…it would make life easy and could be an awesome product!!!

7 
Howzit DS, Fiberglass Hi. sells an acrylic finish that you can put on with a sponge. Let each coat totally dry then apply another coat, dry and one more coat. Weave will still show but if you knock it down with a green rice pot scrubber on a ferro soft pad the weave disappears and the finish is really speedy. I was amazed that before knocking down the shiny acrylic the finish is not slick but after the knock down a rag just slides across it fast.Fiberglass Hi. also sell an acrylic paint thinner that does the same and they are both water based and they run about $18 a Gal.Aloha,Kokua
8

Hi DS

I used solvent based lacquers, spray application, for years but don’t now. The flat or satin lacquer will cover weave and makes for a nice clean finish. If you use a glossy finish lacquer you will see scratches even if your board is sanded to 320 or better.

I’ve used the wipe on stuff too but could never get it to look as nice as sprayed lacquer.

You may find a water white non yellowing water base satin lacquer out there. Your best application will be sprayed but, reality is there are no short cuts to making a good surfboard. Extra steps are necessary to do the job right. Enjoy the process… enjoy the results.

Who knows though, there may be some magic product hiding on some industrial hardware store shelf that would make a nice shiny hard finish with minimal effort.

D.R.

9

Kokua…by rice pad you mean the green scrubber pads like Scotchbrite…not the sponge Scotchbrites just the bigger green ones right? I’ve used them by hand and thought of putting one on a soft pad…cool.

Yeah Dennis…sprayed flat lacquer makes sense…I know from experience that the gloss will never net the miracle short cut I was talking about…and I totally agree about doing things right…but just want to state that IF I found a material that didn’t hurt product quality and performance I certainly would look at it as a very valid new way of doing finish coats versus our current method…just as I would change out from an old standard abrasive to a new improved abrasive if it became available and on and on…so it isn’t rally cheating, it’s R&D to work smart and more econmically just as discovering you can print great logos on a printer and so on…

I’d love to be able to fine sand down any tits then just swipe on some ultra clear tough acrylic, wait 15 mnutes and polish out to a high and lasting luster, wouldn’t you?

10

Howzit DS, Yes those are the pads I mean. You can buy ones big enough for a 6" ferro pad at your local hardware store.Aloha,Kokua

11

bitchen…ot them under my sink

12

We have really good luck using MATRIX brand urathane auto paint. It is catylised. And has excellent high solids.

We sand to 220 and shoot a healthy coat of Matrix. Looks like a gloss when dry. And is hard and strong. No need to do anything to the board after that. No plolishing.

As per Flat finish, just add the flatener. The high solids will cover most all the scratches. Gun cleans up easy with cheapy lacquer thinner.

13

http://www.alsacorp.com/products/sunscreenclear/MSDS-TDS/TDS%20SUNSCREEN%20CLEAR%201300.pdf

http://www.alsacorp.com/products/speedclear/speed_prodinfo.htm

http://www.alsacorp.com/products/killercans/sc/speedclear.htm

seems like a possibility

auto detail guys always seem to get the best finishes out there.

14

Oneula…have a look at the auto guys above you…

Thing is, I used to spray linear polyurethan and Emeron on sailboards along with other color based products on molded boards, like gel coats with PVA for curing etc. etc…a fair amount of time was spent talking to auto shop guys that knew their stuff.

There is a huge world of coatings out there. Some have demanding conditions for their use; like with LP we made sure our spray room had sparkless switches, and we had a free air system for whoever was spraying. We were attracted to LP for it’s tough finish against scratching…resin is really quite soft by comparison, and thousand dollar sailboard hulls in the 80’s were purchased by very discriminating customers.

I look at producing quality boards with this past knowledge that there are plenty of discoveries awaiting us to improve board production and improve turnover and profitability if you are curious and willing to search and ask and do some R&D. Some guys will be diehards on that the old way is the only real way, and in some aspects I certainly agree…but there are ways to think outside of the box that are totally valid if you are willing to be open to discovery.

I like to think in new terms not only in design, but in the actual process. If someone wants a vintage board with resin pinlines, color layups and cut laps, I’m all for playing the way back machine. But if I have to compete with low cost offshore labor, I am looking in every nook and cranny to put myself on a competitve playing field. I do not desire being replaced by a machine or some twelve year old or adult that had to buy their job.

It’s not necessary to turn this thread into yet another ‘us against them’ discussion. All I am saying is to be competitive you have to move with the times because the playing field isn’t exactly layed out the way it was in 1967, or 1979, or 1990, or probably even last year.

I want the real craftsmen in our industry to stand up for themselves and make a statement…we produce quality, we treat our customers personally and with respect, we can deliver on time at a fair price.

Look for the aces up your sleeve, use them to your advantage. Don’t accept the misconception 'there’s no money in surfboards…be proud of your heritage, and stay plugged in to what you love!

Keep shaping & building…