DHP epoxy observations

I recently finished a second board using DHP epoxy resin over a standard Clark foam blank with S glass. Here are some observations.

First the good:

It’s amazingly strong stuff. I’ve dropped the first board on rocks, parking lots, etc. with zero damage. The area under my back foot has compressed slightly, but considering I weigh in at about 220 with full rubber, it hasn’t dented much at all.

The sanded finish I used for the first board had an odd, but cool “grippy” feeling to it. I ended up liking it because the unwaxed areas of the board weren’t at all slippery unless I was wearing gloves.

The odor—almost none. Very pleasant to work with. My wife could actually walk into the garage and not gag while I was laminating.

Quick working time. You could shape a board in the morning, glass it mid day, and surf it for a morning session the next day.

The not so good:

You’ve got to lap your rails as quickly as possible, due to the quick setting properties of the stuff. Kind of hard to explain…it gets thick almost immediately due to the temperature difference between the microwave oven and the surface of the blank. This is disconcerting, but not a big deal, as the resin is still in a workable state. The rails just need that extra bit of low viscosity to saturate and wrap before the resin cools.

It’s not unlike glassing with goopy snot. Not that bad, but DHP resin is stickier than anything I’ve worked with. It takes some getting used to.

You need a microwave to heat the epoxy, a cheap mixer to thoroughly mix the two parts, and an electronic scale to accurately measure the two parts. I never had a problem with mis-mixing the two parts, even with small batches. The surfacing agent, and the white and blue pigments were a pain in the ass to get out of the containers.

You need a hot box to cure it. I spent thirty bucks on rigid foam insulation panels, put them together with duct tape, put a meat thermometer in one end and a hair dryer in the other and viola! A hot box. Worked great.

The ugly:

It’s very resistant to sanding. For anyone with better laminating skills than I possess, just about all of you I imagine, this may not be an issue. For the first board I built with DHP, sanding was a minor annoyance. For the second board, and this is where things got ugly, sanding turned into a nightmare. After a flawless lam, I started in on the sand coat and was horrified to see thousands of little fisheyes appear in the resin. No matter the number of times I spread the resin out again, the fisheyes reappeared. In retrospect, I should have just skinned the coat off and started over but, well, it’s expensive stuff and I figured I could just sand it out. Ha! I must have spent 20 hours trying to sand that coat off, and it just never got back down to an acceptable smoothness. Admittedly, I was using an orbital sander, but with 40 grit paper. I didn’t have the grinder set up to do surfboards. I tried a small patch of System Three epoxy over the rear of the deck to see if it would adhere to the DHP. That worked fairly well, but it was yellow compared to the ultra clear DHP. Next, I tried some of Greg Loehr’s Resin Research West epoxy on the bottom to see if it would go on over the fisheyes…no luck. But it stuck, which Greg wasn’t sure was going to be the case. Finally, after setting the fin plug with RRW epoxy I dumped the excess on the deck to see what would happen, and it actually stayed over the fisheyes. I guess I just needed a thicker coat on the bottom. Mark at AST was perplexed about what would cause the fisheyes, but I have a feeling it was high humidity in a relatively cool environment that may have led to the problem. Ultimately my fault for not controlling the glassing environment better.

I was intrigued by the claims of low toxicity and strength, but for a low volume guy like myself, the technical requirements ( I mean skill and facility with the material ) were a downer. For a factory setup, with professionals, things would undoubtedly go much smoother.

Miscellaneous notes: I put in a set of Speed fins with DHP, with no fiberglass cut up to form a matrix, just the epoxy. A year later—no cracks, no problems.

I mixed the stuff at about 110 degrees F, hot enough to get rid of the bubbles, not so hot as to reduce the working time too much.

Heat your work area so that the blank is warm prior to glassing. A dehumidifier might be a good idea too.

That’s it. On to the next board.

Nice review of DHP resin and i believe the first on Swaylocks. Gotta say those fisheyes look scary! They look like bubbles actually. A few questions, where did you get it and how much did you pay for the stuff? Was it good enough to use again?

yea epoxy , is very suceptable to impurities, wax on stands,a dirty wipe down cloth,any sort of grease ,oil,cleaning solvents,silicon,(some sgueegees have silicon in them),being in your garage its very possible just the dust off the floor getting kicked around would contain contaminants…

regards

BERT

Ouch. And I thought my fisheyes was bad… Did you use any cleaning solvent before doing the hotcoat that misbehaved?

regards,

Håvard

You can get it from Mark at mark@astsurf.com, and it was in the neighborhood of $120-150 including shipping for enough to do two boards plus other things such as setting fins, etc.

Bert probably nailed it with the contamination issue. I also use my garage for woodworking, so there’s that everpresent layer of dust that is impossible to get rid of.

The fisheyes weren’t bubbles, rather areas where there seemed to be some resin-phobic activity going on. Like water on wax. It was strange to see the epoxy pull back like some kind of post industrial amoeba.

Was it good enough to use it again? Yes. The end result is great. Will I use it again? Probably, but not until I have a dedicated glassing area where I can keep the contamination issue at bay. I’d like to see better sanding characteristics as well, or better lam technique on my part. I’ll be the first to admit that I jumped off the learning curve on this one, mostly due to the expense. All in all, a positive experience, but with house repairs, new kids, jobs, and a wife to attend to, I need something foolproof.

Here’s another shot of the bottom which I was able to smooth down a fair amount. I figure it’s just a variation of my old Willis bros Phaser bottom.

Haavard: No, I didn’t use a solvent to clean it, just a clean cloth.

Hey O.P.,

I was under the impression that DHP resin wasn’t Polyester or Epoxy but a third animal.

I’ve been using Greh Loerh’s Resin Research epoxy with grand results. The Flow additive makes the stuff skin out real sweet. Never any bubble or fisheyes. The only time you get a bit of cloth that isn’t saturated is because you overlooked the holiday during the lamination process. Can’t wait to get started on the 7’5" egg.

All those bubbles – fish eyes would scare me away from the stuff in hurry.

Mahalo, Rich

DHP is a urethane resin. Urethanes have long molecular chains which gives them good impact strength but have less in the way of stiffness. We produce two epoxies 2020 and 2040 that offer better impact similar to DHP. Like DHP they both make good recreational equipment that holds up to rocks and collisions, better than standard epoxy or polyester. Like DHP they aren’t stiff enough for lightweight high performance shapes. Lightweight glass jobs need very stiff resins because thinner glass jobs are more flexible by nature because of their lack of thickness. We have two resins that are very stiff, 2000, which is used with glass and 1980 which is used with carbon. One of the real exciting things happening in the epoxy end of the surfboard industry is the use of many new materials just coming available now. The range of different resins will allow us to make more competent use of these materials.

greg !!!where you been ??? i was gettin worried coz you havent been around for a while…

how close to halycon are you???

no your not at all are you???

your east hes west??

never mind…

good to see you back around…

regards

BERT

Hey Halcyon

Yup, already have my first batch of Greg’s epoxy which I’ll be using on a 7’6" before the Fall cranks up. My only concern with the additive is that it contains xylene, which isn’t the best of stuff. I’m not drinking the stuff, but my ongoing search has been to find the least toxic material to be around when making a board. Maybe Greg can address that since he’s already posted here.

Hey O.P.,

My take on the Xylene issue is that a cc or so of it for an entire surfboard ain’t much and I’m gonna be wear rubber gloves and a mask anyway.

Gone Fishin, Rich

Hey Greg,

I’ve go buddy in Spain that want some of your resin. I sent you an email but haven’t go a reply.

Can it happen?

Mahalo, Rich

Yea, I know about the Xylene but I had to put it in a solvent that would keep all the solids in solution. I tried some others but xylene worked by far the best. Sometimes were just stuck with certain chemical combinations. But as Rich said, it’s a very small use percentage so…

I’ve been on the road for about 3-4 weeks. Got some GREAT new stuff to share with you guys once I catch up with work a bit. We did some new stuff in FL that worked great. I also have a whole new idea about a new direction for custom boards. How would you guys like to make custom Surftech’s about as easy as building standard surfboards right in our exsisting shops? It’s gonna work! Standard wet lay up. No vacuum bags, no molds, no BS. Just shape and glass with some new composite material I’ve found. I still have some things to work out and find out how to approach availability of all the stuff but it will happen. Also I’ve built some other real high performance stuff with carbon. Real good results. I have a new 7’6"X3"X20" high performance board that weighs 6.5 lbs. Again straight wet lay up with carbon inlays inside perimeter stringers.

Rich, I’ll catch up with e-mail in a couple days. I’m checking on some shipping options for overseas now.

Quote:

Yea, I know about the Xylene but I had to put it in a solvent that would keep all the solids in solution. I tried some others but xylene worked by far the best. Sometimes were just stuck with certain chemical combinations. But as Rich said, it’s a very small use percentage so…

I’ve been on the road for about 3-4 weeks. Got some GREAT new stuff to share with you guys once I catch up with work a bit. We did some new stuff in FL that worked great. I also have a whole new idea about a new direction for custom boards. How would you guys like to make custom Surftech’s about as easy as building standard surfboards right in our exsisting shops? It’s gonna work! Standard wet lay up. No vacuum bags, no molds, no BS. Just shape and glass with some new composite material I’ve found. I still have some things to work out and find out how to approach availability of all the stuff but it will happen. Also I’ve built some other real high performance stuff with carbon. Real good results. I have a new 7’6"X3"X20" high performance board that weighs 6.5 lbs. Again straight wet lay up with carbon inlays inside perimeter stringers.

Rich, I’ll catch up with e-mail in a couple days. I’m checking on some shipping options for overseas now.

Good to see you back Greg and Im looking forward to hearing the details of your surftech type construction.