diamond tail Vs Squash 6'10" thruster bottom shape???

General Discussion
1

Hi

My previous board, one which was shaped for me by john purton in south wales is 6’10" x 20 3/4 x 2" 5/8 winged swallow single concave… i love it even though ive shaped a few boards since trying differnt lengths ( going shorter , even though im 100kg and 6’4" … i keep going back to it) … but its time to shape another …

I want to keep the same template but change the tail shape… been drawing out origanally for a sqush but thought that far too boring … and saw my mates diamond tail which he loves ( his is a 6 3 diamond with very obvious double con out the fins )

anyone surfed a similar board? and what concave should i put on the bottom … single to double? and pro and cons squash Vs diamond… ive read up and diamond should give a looser board than the squash so should i not go too crazy witrh concave through the fins as i understand will lossen up the tail ?!..

please correct me …

thanks

2

sorry just to add…l surf all sort s 7 ft single fins … eggs etcetc but this will be my all round short board … fast and drivey and hopefully roack like the original 6’10" i have … the original is still surfable but looking a little sorry for it self…tobacco stained yellow!

thanks

3

please correct me …

sorry to burst your bubble but there’s not much diff there…its miniscule.

your friend loves his board because of other factors such as overall board design, fin setup etc etc.

tail shapes are the easiest thing to see on a shape and easy for most people to falsy appreciate as something of high value, which in reality is not much. the width of the tail, its rail shape, bottom contour and how fins interact with the board design has FAR MORE reaching affects.

tail shapes help to sell boards. look at the bat tail phenomenon. i had an acquaintance hardcore surfer whos into equipment tell me that bat tails have “pivot points” that make the board go better. whatever, if it makes you happy…i let him believe…

4

lol

i wanna cut and paste that to my forehead

5

forget those other tails

so old school

ive got a cock tail slasher

6

Craftee,

Stretch has the same philosophy (and rightly so), which is interesting because he has so many bat tails in his line of boards. Here’s what he says about tail shape on Surfline’s “shaping bay”…

“There are two tails, and only two tails: there are round pins; a round pin will shorten the rail-line of a board over all the other tails…”

The rest is on audio (I’m too lazy to take dictation)…check out “5 of 18” for his comments on tail shape:

http://www.surfline.com/surfnews/photo_bamp.cfm?id=10040&ad=1

Gary

7

hey thanks for the replys

interesting points from stretch i agree …but he is only one of many shapers in the world, and surely he cannot be 100% correct . …as if you visualise a tail going through the water on a turn the resistance a square gives as apposed to a deep swallow … surely there must be some diiferrences in the behaviour of that board …

sure …bottom contours , rockers and fins are as if not more important but it is the collective factor of all these variables which changes the dynamoics of a board . that is why i was also. posing the question on concave … how much etc …as i had changed the fundamental shape of my tail from winged swallow to diamond …and as ( from what i ve read from various other shapers diamond tails shorten the rail length- no question…and therefore increases the manouvability of the tail shape/board )

surely must take into account this shape change and introduce more or less concave./ rocker to keep or increase drive /hold/ turning ability

thanks for your contributions…!

8

Agreed Oliver.

but this comment: diamond should give a looser board than the squash…

from your original post is what I disagree with.

What I recommend is you learn a bit more about how to analyze a design (this takes a long while to learn but Im sure you are game) and look at lots of boards. Early on I spent a lot of time at surf shops and the archive here. Not a day goes by where I dont learn something new. It takes years. To break it down into the most simple parts, there’s three major features; the design of the board; its method of contruction and the fin setup. They are all equally important IMO. The true challenge is marrying them (threesome?) in proper harmony. Most accomplished reputable builders know how to do this. Pick their brains if its okay with them. By looking at only one relatively small sub-feature (tail shape) and mind shaping around that is kind of like taking your eye off the big picture. Here’s the real dilema…some of the things that make majic boards majic are hidden from most people’s view. But its fun trying to find them. Like looking for lost treasure. Sorry I cant be more help, pics would help.

9

thansk for all the posts so far … when iposted the original question …it was just that a question , not a statement , so if anyone can give me some tangible input rather than telling me what not to do or think about the tail shapes/design i have mentioned.

to reiterate …or shall i say i shall put the question another way …or just again

**what differences will the change of tail make ( if any according to the first reply ) ?? pros …cons…

thanks again

10

well since you put it that way…

the answer is…very little to no difference.

but im sure you wont be satisfied with that answer.

here’s another good answer:

shape whatever tail shape that gives you the most stoke about your board.

diamond tails look cool and make surfers feel really stoked…

and when youre really stoked, you surf better.

11

This is mainly just 2 cents worth of mindsurfing, and I didn’t draw that above, but I think it could be more significant than it usually gets credit for around here. The bigger the cutaways, the bigger the difference, too. The above illustration shows rails with reduced length, and tail with reduced planing area at the corners; that would tend to make a difference.

BUT, whether you could feel it would be the question–how good/experienced are you, how tail-oriented is your style, and how smooth and powerful are your waves? Oh and how uniform are your boards otherwise? What craftee is saying is probably true for most surfers when they add up the truthful answers to all those questions, but …

12

To give you some input to your question, you need to ask if you are really

looking at a squash or a rounded square tail. If it is a squash, there is a transition

in the curve/rail line from 12 to 18 inches up (usually, boards vary) which can be

a subtle bump or an major one as seen in the old '80’s boards. A squash will ride

a lot differently than a rounded square and carries volume back into the board which

can be useful for guys in your size range.

A diamond tail gives more of a pivot feel if used with a vee thru the fin areas. A spiral

vee (with concaves) works well in boards this size.

My personal preference in boards this size is a rounded “thumb” tail with a wide point

2 to 3 inches behind center with a slight bottom concave and vee through the fins. These

boards with the right rocker worked well in 2’ Huntington slop and XXX overhead Metawais

this summer. PM me if you would like a breakdown of all the dimensional specfics of

this type of board and I can also send some pics.

BKB

13

wide point back looks good to

been playing in aku and i like the looks of wide point back 2inches

i have made some really ugly boards trying to improve performance

now i just make em look purty

rounded pins are sexiest

so probably go better LOL

at the end of the day if the waves are cranking

its your fitness and attitude that will make the difference

surfed for 3 1/2 ours to day cold windy cross shore

but it was overhead sets and some good peelers

just put on you perfect wave filter glasses

and get into it

i was surfing an older heavier board first time in 6 months

was gunna give it away

it went great

so imo tail shape makes very little difference in the big scheme of things

maybe if you surf like a pro

the average twat like me would benefit with less rocker and more width

much more important things that can improve your surfing outasite

but hard to come by in a matrix style endless rack of white potato chips

(“um der ,we need surfboards,lots of surfboards!”)

squash are a little slipperyer then rounded pins

i guess a diamond would be fairly slippery

swallow feel a little dragy to me might be good in the barrel

14

thank you very much SURFTEACH … points taken …