Or maybe I could go a bit further back with the wide point…
Always nice to ask before committing to foam…
Merry Christmas one and all!
to each his own but for a more versatile result I would probably consider shifting the wide point and thickness a little forward, unless you really are limiting use to <3’ gutless. Or weigh >>200. but that’s just me and i am a lowly hack. I might also say pull in the tail 1/2" or so. I weigh about 180.
I had a board sort of like that, although the width was 20.5" at widest and 1’ from the tail was only 17.25". It’s 5’4". What I liked is that there really wasn’t much need to move forward at all since there’s so much area at the back. So you kinda just stay on the tail, pump and do turns without shifting much, controlling the whole thing from one spot. Very speedy if the wave has any amount of face to it. It really needs higher fin area or set back fins though.
Are you or the rider heavy or tall? It could be shorter if you’re not. Mine was 5’4" and it easily could have lost a few inches with little downside. What ends up happening is there’s so much area and rail at the back, you really don’t need much of the front actually in the water. People would always tell me it looks like so much of it is out of the water when I rode it. That’s what it felt like anyway. I agree with shifting the volume forward a bit for paddling purposes. Once you’re up and riding the high area tail will keep you planing, not the volume there. Plus thinning out the super wide tail will probably make it a bit easier to control.
Is it gonna be flat bottom or something else? I made a second version of mine with the wide point shifted up, hull entry to double to vee and it’s much better. The first was flat.
Interesting.
it came about because I noticed that the few magic boards I really like both have the wide point back. I think my stance is a little narrower than average and also it forces me to think via the back foot a bit more - all in all I think this is why these boards worked for me. I’d like to try a McCoy nugget one day.
But maybe I’ve overdone it. I’m having to work from memory and poor quality photos on the boards I’m trying to go from.
Interesting to hear 2 people say I have over done it so far.
Bottom is currently very mild vee at the nose and then single to double concave and then slight vee at the tail. Previous board was single to double concave but not sure if it had vee. This best known previous board was a wide square tail mini simmons which was just fine to paddle at approx 35-37litres for 77kg (this is 37 so hopefully the water line works fine for paddling and take off)… I thought that little bit of length would help on the take off. The previous board is 5’6" which is why it’s that length… Trying to keep some things the same and just change the tail to round which shouldn’t kill small wave ability hopefully.
Another approach could be coming at it from sweet potato and then wide point back for my stance
Edit:
From calculation of the only photo of my old board that one works out 8" back from centre… (5’6" board) That seems a lot and I haven’t seen anything that extreme… Maybe I’m measuring it wrong… 2" is the biggest offset I’ve seen mentioned
With a WP @ 8 inches behind center, on a 5’ 6’’ board, you have duplicated near classic Pig proportions. You’re easily in the ballpark, for that style of surfboard. Follow your instincts.
Looks like an original Peter Pan Slug model but 2 feet shorter. I say build it and try it out. Could surprise you on the upside.
These are piggy too albeit considerably longer (6’9" for the blue one & 7’6" for the green one). You can see the nose is pulled in a lot… just reversing the template kind of thinking like when Dale Velzy did so back in the day.
Mine seem not as parallel as your outline appears in your diagram.
They are turn and burn machines with lots of speed and control from one point. Chad Marshall from Mollusk demo’d the 6’9" and came back saying “I got the most bitchen, gigantic air launch on this stick!”… well uh yeah, there’s plenty of area back there to launch you! Pigs are fast and they don’t have sweat glands, so you can never “sweat like a pig”.
Long live pigs… O-I-N-K-!
Bruce,
What rockers are you using with those little porkers. Flatter nose, more tail kick like a speed egg.
This outline works great. I have a 6’ Downing, my brother had a 7-10 McCoy, and has a 6-8 Downing. I see a lot guys riding those Firewires with the wide round tail, but for me a tail that wide hasn’t been as good.
Sharkcountry,
Can you tell me a bit more regards wide round tails. Maybe I’ve overcooked the wideness, is that what you mean?
I came to this shape after testing get out a hypto krypto for a few months to see what all the fuss is about and a 18" wide square tail, wide point back mini simmons. And also a fw dominator tested.
I didn’t like the pintail of the HK. I liked the dominator tail. The mini simmons tail I found useless for deep takeoffs but still a favourite because most waves are mush… so this is why I went with a round tail - but it’s too much right? So I should go with the McCoy tail width right? That’s what you’re saying?
I definitely don’t want a pintail because this board has to be focused on small wave mush - another board for any push / hollow /size.
No one commented on the step rails yet.
If you look at the boards Deadshaper and I show, the tails have more curve than your cad image. With the way I surf, a wide round tail you show will have me surfing on the outer half versus getting more of the tail buried. That ends up with a quick spinning turn versus a deeper gauging drawn out turn. You’d almost be better off with a fish tail to get an edge to work off because the tail curve is very straight going into a big round tail. I like your nose curve for the tail. If you reverse your board outline, you have what Donald Takayama called a scorpion.
Just my opinion, but for smaller mushy waves I prefer using a mid length egg. Something up to 7’, if you surf crowded spots up to 8’. Get in early and enjoy. Step back to turn and step up to glide through sections. You have the paddling of the longer board, but the shorter length will let you throw it around easily. I made a 6-7 x 21 x 3+ big boy short board that works great for catching waves and rides well with all the foam. If you want to try something for smaller waves look at something like this. These boards are a ton of fun in small waves. This is Greg Griffin’s vision of what a mini simmons could be.
I’m curious - what is the purpose of the “step rail” as you’ve drawn it?
I’ve done a step rail but it was more like a standard rail that stepped up to a thick deck, I put a rail channel right at the stepup line.
Sharkcountry:
That’s not a wide point back board though.
I’m building this because I had a mini simmons with a wide point back which worked well for me - my favorite board. I might have strayed too far from the original board which had a very wide square tail. I have a mini simmons now with a wide point centre and I don’t like it. Wide point forward was a false benefit for me - it helps me catch the wave but once up it aggravates me. The yellow board is probably great for a lot of people but the main point of why I’m building this is to address my stance without having to travel to Australia to buy a McCoy. … but I’ve never tried a McCoy… I hope I didn’t misunderstand what I liked in that board
The wide tail messes up a forgiving takeoff. I can see I had it too wide though - didn’t want to go wider than McCoy so I’ve taken back a bit to the McCoy range - thanks for those images 
I don’t want to be testing too many things in one board so it’s good to bring it back to McCoy range.
Huck:
Inspired from the ‘Thick board, skinny rails’ thread but I was afraid to take it as far as some of the boards that came out of that thread so I went with something smaller. The step on your board looks very modest though not in the same ballpark as the boards on that thread? I really like the whole small rails on a thick board idea.
I really love the idea of step rails as it kind of seems like a logical extension of the boards I’ve been progressing with. I like high volume yet I like knifey rails - why not both? - that thread proved it works so I figured why not give it a go. This is a big thing motivating me to make the board.
By the way, if anyone knows a better name for rails that have 2 levels please let me know.
Wide point back to correct my stance and then balance that with stuff for speed
Perhaps these 2 things are too much to do in a single shape though and I should pick one thing to try. Frothing to cut foam!
http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/oldmandoesalright-maybe-middle-aged?page=2
http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/ufo-double-ened-step-deck-curved-channel
Seems like you know what you want. Best to give it a try and see if you can pull it off. I went through about 6 or 7 years of building all sorts of things to learn what doesn’t work. More than a handful of boards that will sit around unridden. I’ve also learned what I like and what will work for me. We all surf differently and we surf different places with different waves, so you’ll have to figure that out for yourself.
If you want a short wide point back board, the McCoy nugget outline is a great place to start. He has a lot of video on youtube to get an idea of what his rockers and profiles look like.
Firewire has a few good images that show stepped rails and Bill Stewart has a board with s-rails. Check those out to get an idea of how he does it. Do some research on the Santa Cruz g-deck surfboard.
You can do that kind of thing or follow Stewart’s chine rails to get them thinner. I’ve been doing some boards with the chine rails with thinned bottom side, and some with the thinner rail, then the deck channel and thicker mid section. I like the deck channel way because it also adds strength (and stiffness) to the board.