I figured this forum would be the best place to ask this question. If it’s inappropriate, mods - please feel free to trash this post.
I’ve been eyeing a new quad but the choices of fin material confuse me. I’m sure I am going to have them glassed on and I have the choice of fiberglass, marine ply, and bamboo. Because I don’t like to ‘tweak my boards’ or even really know how to tune them, I plan to stay clear of the bamboo - i’ve head they hum if not properly tuned. So I’m left with fiberglass and marine ply. What are the pros and cons of each? As of now, I plan on going with fiberglass because it’s familiar but I’d like to hear what local experts have to say regarding this.
There is NO REASON that Bamboo should hum, except poor , or incorrect foiling. Bamboo is a natural two phase material. Fiberglass, is a man made two phase material. Go with what makes you happy.
Well, seeing how I’m not familiar with the differences between the different materials, that’s why I asked the question. I’m sure they’ll ALL make me happy, it’s just a matter of which one might make me happier.
if they are being made professionally think of it as more cosmetic. wooden fins are a little floatier, but don’t flex like fiberglass. what are you looking for? are you going to be boosting airs and blowing your tail out like the wct or are you going to be cruising, bottom turn, trim, bottom turn, trim?
I surf top to bottom. I can hit the lip both ways (backside / frontside) but I’m not able to chuck my tail or boost airs. I’ve been riding a twin fin fish (5’9") for the past year and half and now. I can toss buckets off the top and out the back but my surfing is still not consistent - I still sometimes get hung up in the lip or pearl on the way down. I’m looking for a more ‘lively’ feel and don’t mind sacrificing drive in doing so. I noticed that on bigger more powerful days, my backside bottom turns suffer as well but I believe it has to do with my board outline and wide fin base. This is one of the reasons I want to go with a quad.
The reason I don’t go back to my shortboard is I have a lot more fun riding the fish these days. I mostly surf beach break (shoulder high and under 90% of the time) and so it’s been working great. The few times I did take out the shortboard I noticed myself drawing ‘fish lines’ if that makes any sense… almost kinda fun but instead of trying to fix it, I just get back on the fish
Bamboo fins float due to thosands of little air pockets in the cellulose. They also exhibit great flex return when foiled and glassed properly.
And they look sweet.
Fiberglass Fins
The standard for fin making I guess. Great strength and flex.
You have to laminate up a bunch of layers of 6 oz. fiberglass first and foiling can get really itchy.
Marine Grade Ply Fins
Inexpensive and get the job done as a fin. Don’t know if they are as performance oriented as bamboo or fiberglass but they’re easy to foil using the ply bands as guides.
The few times I did take out the shortboard I noticed myself drawing 'fish lines' if that makes any sense... almost kinda fun but instead of trying to fix it, I just get back on the fish :)
makes a lot of sense. I am taking a guess that your new board is more like the speed dialer?
Pretty close! I’m > < this close to pulling the trigger on a Double Wing Quad Fish from Mani Caro ( mandalacustomshapes.com ) but had questions on the fins. He was pretty good at getting back to me with emails and I called him 2 days ago and he was nice enough to go over a lot of the technical details but alas, most of it went over my head. I just surf, I don’t shape nor do I understand the details of concaves, fin foils, and CQC’s, etc. I know the basics only. We spoke for about 15-20 mins and I had settled on fiberglass per our conversation but then I noticed marine ply fins and forgot to ask him. Not wanting to call him over every little detail, I sent him another email but haven’t heard from him (it’s only been a a day) so I figured I’d post here.
To the previous poster, thanks for the skinny on the fins - I appreciate the reply!
I can’t speak on bamboo fins, but I can say that high quality 5 ply marine plywood, with no gaps or air spaces, makes excellent fins that I think are ideal in terms of flex for keel type fins on fishes. Foiled and glassed properly (fuller foil and 2 layers of 6oz before being glassed onto the board), they fit perfectly with traditional fish style surfing - better than fiberglass, IMHO.
But for other types of shortboards, including quads, I prefer foam cored fiberglass fins. They’re great performance fins for modern shortboard surfing. I perfer solid fiberglass for single fins, as most others do, but would go for solid fiberglass over wood on a quad if you’re doing glassons. If you’re going to make your own fins, maybe you could shape them out of foam, stain them, then glass them up before putting them on your board. There are some really talented people here who can help you through the process, if you’re inclined.
Any small error in placement will make the board a dud. The only way I would get fixed fins is if you knew for certain that 1) the board/fin setup combo has been proven succesfully in the field with a wide variety of users and 2) the fin setup is installed perfect on your board.
Odds are, one of the two wont be there for you. The smallest of fin error will ruin a quad faster than any other setup. Unless youve got assurance of #1, you’d be rolling the dice with fixed fins. There are reputable board builders out there selling quads without any reliable knowledge or experience on how to do them right. If you are uncertain, a thruster will increase your chance of success.
I agree with you that fin placement on quads is crucial to good performance. The first glass-on quad I made sucked performance wise. I just randomly picked some placements and cants and the thing tracked pretty badly.
So I ground the glass-ons off and installed some ProBoxes. Played with the positions and cants and made the board work waaay better. I found an 8 degree cant up front and a 4 degree in the back with a bit more spread in the cluster did the trick.
Now when I go to duplicate the quad fish I can place some bamboo glass-ons accurately and know it will work.
If you go with a quad go with fin boxes. We all have our favorites so I’ll let the choice rest with you. Consider that you can tune ride with fins if you can switch them around.
As far as materials are concerned. If you go with boxes you’ll have a fairly wide selection from the people that make to box system you choose. I hear that one of the big fin companies has started making bamboo fins. I wonder how they’re working the bamboo into the lamination stack? I’ve done some with bamboo and had pretty nice results. I stick to Epoxy resin when working with bamboo and have done some with carbon fiber in the stack that I ride all the time.
Final word look at several shaper’s work before you pick one. There are some excellent quads out there and some that are that look pretty but are very so so in the performance department. I’m only familiar with the local shapers so I probably can’t do you a lot of good on that one.
you should call the guys at moonlight glassing, since that is where that board will probably be glassed anyway. The 101 fins that they have there really are beautiful and are now offered in a removable system (lokbox)… I have bamboo’s glassed on a 5 fin bonzer and I love how they hold. But with the removable system you can always go with fiberglass fins if you don’t care for the bamboo…
The materials a set of fins are made out of is a trade off of weight to flexural modulus (or flex). Bamboo is a very lively core with one of the best strength to weight ratio’s available.
Well I pulled the trigger this afternoon and mailed off my deposit for a new board. www.mandalacustomshapes.com - I’m going with a 5’10" double wing quad with glassed fiberglass fins. I mentioned your comment about the fin boxes and he assured me the board works much better with the glassed on fins. He says he shapes his board around the fins. I’ve heard nothnig but good things about his boards so we’ll see in a few months. I also asked him about the different fin material and for me, it appears fiberglass is the best choice.
Thanks for everyones input. I’m really impressed with the community of surfers/shapers and knowledge on this board.
There are about ~30 boards in front of mine and he said that moonlight has been taking around 4 weeks or so for clear coat jobs so less than 4 months. I’m hoping for 2-3 months. When we spoke first he said it could be up to 4 months but after speaking with him tonight, it looks like it will be sooner than that.
It’s been great dealing with individual shapers. My last two boards were Zippi’s and I absolutely love them. I’ll never buy off the rack again.
