DISASTROUS first attempt at glassing, advice needed

General Discussion
1

Wow, what a mess.

I am glassing my first SUP (first anything really). It went about as bad as it could.

I laid the glass on my board, trimmed it nicely, leaving about 2" of lap beyond the rails, cutting slits where necessary (at the pointy end and at the back end where there’s a tight radius).

I mixed up a big batch of RR Kwik Kick: 32oz of resin, 16oz hardener, some random amount of Additive F.

I started laying on the epoxy. Problem #1: I could not get the laps fully wetted and laying down nicely. And this while getting epoxy ALL OVER the place. I had a little trouble just getting the rails fully wetted and pressed down.

Then I noticed my epoxy was getting warm. And THEN I noticed my bucket of epoxy was smoking. This worried me, so I took it down to the end of the driveway. I tried to pour some into a cup but it was already hard, like 15 minutes after mixing.

I pulled the glass off the board and scraped off the epoxy, and the board is in good shape.

So what exactly did I do wrong? How can I get it right next time?

Maybe this first timer should have used a nice slow epoxy and not that KK stuff?

What about the laps - what’s the secret to getting them wetted out and lay down nicely? Should I maybe first brush some epoxy under the lap - on the board?

I now know I can’t put 48oz of mixed epoxy in a single bucket. What’s the biggest batch size that’s safe? Should I mix a big batch and break it up into smaller cups, or should I mix little batches as I go? If I mix little batches, wouldn’t I have a problem with the last section I was working on hardening while I mix the epoxy for the next section?

Believe it or not, I read lots of stuff and watched that Keahana Glassing Manual carefully, taking lots of notes. I’m not generally stupid.

So have a good laugh, maybe share some fond memories of your first time, but please help me figure this out.

Thanks.

Lee

2

Hi Lee, If you can’t get someone to help on such a big board, then mix two batches one at a time. Also, use a scale in the future for measuring. Way more accurate. Mix up one bucket with hardener and pour it all out on one half of the board. From middle to rail, spread epoxy to the laps and wet out. Turn laps and mix second bucket to do the other half. You may have a little working time between buckets so let the lap hang until it adheres when squeegeed. In mean time, get second half ready to follow suit. Don’t add hardener to both buckets at same time. Did you warm part A in a hot water bath first? This lowers viscosity and spreads easier. NEVER heat the catalyst part B. You can even work in quadrants if need be if half is too much at one time for you. Watch for bubbles and frothing. Slow and steady wins the race. Don’t get worked up over it. PREPARATION IS EVERYTHING! Have it all there ready to go before mixing. One step at a time. Look at it as two or four smaller boards instead of one huge task. As long as the epoxy just spread stays tacky there is no problem working from the other side to it. If you want to baste the underside of the blank for the lap with a brush, do it. Some use a brush to fully wet out anyway. If done right it will turn under and stick to the foam. Work efficiently and don’t dawdle but don’t rush either. Best of luck.

3

Kwick kick on a sup is brave… Try the resin reseach fast or slow if it’s hot.I like the fast and have ample time 

What is your environment temperature? Got pics?

4

it was in the 80s.

tblank, everything you said sounds right. The guy on the glassing video also poured it all on the board at once, but I figured that was an advanced technique or something. Didn’t realize it was necessary to avoid the exothermic thing.

Also I like the idea of leaving the laps hang until they thicken up. I can see where that would work.

I am kind of stuck with the KK - I have already spent too much on this project and I have 3 gallons of this stuff. So I will break it down into small batches and do a section at a time.

Thanks guys.

5

Just a tip, if you’re doing sections at a time cut the cloth on the rail lap where you’re going to stop so you can rap the rail section thats wet separately from dry side. I’ve found that doing sections and not cutting the cloth at the rail where i stop ends up either leaving the cloth raised from the blank leaving a resin bump or making it a little harder to get the dry cloth side wetted out when laminating that side after due to that part being pulled under. Usually do this when changing colors as well, helps keep from smearing colors if you want a clean connection between the colors.

6

Okay Bluefinsurf, I can see where thats a really good idea, and I never would have thought of it. Thank you.

7

Sorry to hear about your troubles. The guys are giving you good advice.

Epoxy-measure, mix, dump, swish, soak, squeegee out the excess.

Do not leave mixed epoxy in the bucket. The stuff in the bucket goes off way faster than the stuff dumped and swished on the board, especially in warm weather.

If your batch is sized to your lam there should be very little to pull off with the squeegee. Better to run short and make a small fresh batch to finish than to have a bunch getting hot, smokey, solid, and useless in the cup or bucket.

Resinhead taught me that epoxy resin is not polyester resin so it does not flow or ‘waterfall’ the same way, that is why it needs to be distributed (swished) and then given a minute or two (soaked) for it to wet out the cloth correctly. 

http://resinresearch.net/id22.html to get an idea of working and set times based on temperature.

I would be inclined to make a batch to go 1/2 board, nose to tail, stringer to the start of one rail: mix, dump, swish, soak, squeegee toward the rail. Then make another batch to wet out and lam the rest of that same rail.  Repeat process on the other side of the stringer. Doing this would give you more working time and just a small overlap of resin at the stringer. I think others have made mention of that technique too.

I just did a 12’-6" x 31" x 6" flatwater like that, KK resin, with no drama in a warm garage. I had some drama when I tried that same board, whole bottom lam, all-at-once. It was not enough drama to need to remove the cloth but enough to make the rails difficult to finish.

8

SUP and quick kick first try is super brave, as others said. I did the same thing with my resin the first time though. I mixed extra and while I was squeege-ing I just left it there. Turned around to see it smoking/melting the bucket. It’s an exothermic reaction and it’s accelerated by heat, so you’ve got a positive feedback cycle of sorts. Great for curing but bad for sitting in a bucket. I even had slow hardener, but it was like 90 degrees at 8am on that day and only got hotter. 

 

9

Bad idea to mix a large batch and leave it one container. The mass of the resin volume creates heat, which accelerates the kick time and shortens your working time. If I were going to mix that much at once I’d split it into smaller buckets after mixing. Smaller batches don’t heat up as much, which lengthens your work time.

10

I really appreciate the advice. I have a pretty good idea how to tackle this now, and enough confidence to give it a shot. Maybe today. I will get some help, too - my son can mix up small batches for me as I need them.

jrandy those notes on technique - give it a little time to soak into the glass - yeah, I get that now, too. It explains some things I saw in the video that weren’t explained.

But my first order of business is to get some gloves - I am still picking epoxy off my hands.

Thanks, guys (I assume).

11

I use Marie Callendar microwavible trays for epoxy, low and wide, spreads out the resin, I pour most of the resin on the flats, give it a quick spread around and with a 1" brush paint the bottom edge of the lap, the tray fits up under the cloth and supports the cloth as it is wet out.

Poly is super easy to wet out laps, but the thickness of epoxy and the cost of it make mixing huge amounts impractical, get back to working the flats, pull off the resin, catching in the tray, paint any dry spots and get to flipping the laps.

Yes, I had a pot of quikick form a 400 degree hockey puck on me, I nuked both parts in cold weather, don’t feel like you are the only one to get bit on the ass, it only make you NOT want to have it happen again

12

 <- Could have been worse lee

http://imgur.com/a/P41ya

Needless to say wood laminate is not easy for a beginner any cavity or bump in the foam without a vaccum bag doesn’t go well… shrinkwrap and sand bags isn’t an easy alternative so it seems…

I’m wondering now how rail bands can be wrapped all the way to the nose and tail… cuts I suppose… seems difficult… 

Sanding any correction takes forever… I need to add a release agent and use PE plastic under the shrink wrap…?

13

I just finished my 2nd attempt: it went much better. I ended up making 5 small batches to cover the bottom of my 11’ board. 

There are some wrinkles - I guess I must have pulled the fabric while I was spreading or squeegeeing the epoxy. And my laps have several ugly folds that are going to need sanding.

But altogether I am pretty happy with this.  I very much appreciate the help I got here. THANK YOU.

What should I do about those wrinkles? They aren’t quite as bad as they look in the picture. Should I accept them as the expected imperfections of my first SUP build? Sand them out and then hot coat? Or apply use some filler, then sand and hot coat?

2597×1160 797 KB

14

I would sand the wrinkles out, you’ll be into the weave, glass a patch over the area, feather the edges of the patch, then hot coat the whole thing.

15

Where are you located?

16

Huck: Thank you, I will do exactly that.

Chrisp: Grand Island NY - a big island in the Niagara River, and a suburb of Buffalo.