displacement hulls

A while back a thread discussing displacement hulls brought up several questions as to what are they and how they work.A few of us who ride these type of boards tried our best to explain the concept and theory.For those of you still interested.I suggest going to Swaylock’s resource section and look up the Legendary Surfers web site under History, then check out the info on Bob Simmons,as this may help explain displacement hulls.It is, by the way, a prety cool web site…

Matt: I’ve visited the site before but never really sat down to absorb all that’s there. What an amazing story of how Bob Simmons got involved in surfing and ended up contributing so much in such a short lifetime. Thanks for the reminder. TS>>> A while back a thread discussing displacement hulls brought up several > questions as to what are they and how they work.A few of us who ride these > type of boards tried our best to explain the concept and theory.For those > of you still interested.I suggest going to Swaylock’s resource section and > look up the Legendary Surfers web site under History, then check out the > info on Bob Simmons,as this may help explain displacement hulls.It is, by > the way, a prety cool web site…

Matt:>>> I’ve visited the site before but never really sat down to absorb all > that’s there. What an amazing story of how Bob Simmons got involved in > surfing and ended up contributing so much in such a short lifetime. Thanks > for the reminder.>>> TS When one reads through Malcolm Gault-Williams very fine "Legendary Surfers" website, a thought-provoking counterpoint emerges in relation to Bob Simmons revolutionary surfboards: the experiences and critical insights of Rabbit Kekai on Bobs slow, "musher" displacement hulls vs. his personal high performance, finless "Hotcurls"! The priceless historical information and photographs in Malcolms site are an absolute must-read for every surfer concerned with those who have gone before, their thoughts/experiences and equipment.

Dale - After reading Rabbit Kekai’s take on board development, I was taken with his description of the finless twin-keel boards. Sounds vaguely familiar! We all know that there is a little competitive nature in the arena of board design. I try to take this into account when deciphering Rabbit’s version of his own speedy finless hot curls vs. Simmons “musher displacement hulls.” I’m not knocking or defending either guy, I just wonder if he is comparing apples to apples so to speak. Simmon’s refers to one type of design as “hydrodynamic PLANING hull.” Over the years he tried and refined many different designs. I suspect that this planing design is not the type of design Kekai is referring to as a “musher.” Simmons also did concaves, twin fins, etc. The photos of top riders absolutely streaking across Malibu walls on Simmons boards demonstrate that in the refined versions, they were definitely not “mushers.” I wonder what specific time period he was remembering?

Dale - After reading Rabbit Kekai’s take on board development, I was taken > with his description of the finless twin-keel boards. Sounds vaguely > familiar! We all know that there is a little competitive nature in the > arena of board design. I try to take this into account when deciphering > Rabbit’s version of his own speedy finless hot curls vs. Simmons > “musher displacement hulls.” I’m not knocking or defending > either guy, I just wonder if he is comparing apples to apples so to speak. > Simmon’s refers to one type of design as “hydrodynamic PLANING > hull.” Over the years he tried and refined many different designs. I > suspect that this planing design is not the type of design Kekai is > referring to as a “musher.” Simmons also did concaves, twin > fins, etc. The photos of top riders absolutely streaking across Malibu > walls on Simmons boards demonstrate that in the refined versions, they > were definitely not “mushers.” I wonder what specific time > period he was remembering? John, If Im not mistaken, Rabbit Kekai was referring to the Malibu "chip" boards, some of which were attributed to Simmons, when they were first brought to Hawaii in 1947, about 10 years after the inception and development of the "Hotcurl" had begun. Rabbit was making a direct comparison between the so-called Simmons "mushers" and the small, light, finless, solid wood "Hotcurls" that he and his friends were using... very fast, high performance items at that time, especially on the South Shore breaks and at Makaha. Plus, the surfing styles of the Californians were generally quite different from the Hawaiian "hotdoggers" like Rabbit Kekai. "Legendary Surfers" continues: "It was the late 1940s," remembered Rabbit Kekai. "That's when the first migration of what you call the haoles came. That was Joe Quigg, Tommy Zahn, Matt Kivlin, a guy they called Melonhead and Dave Rochlen. They were the first guys that brought down what we called the potato chip boards; the Simmons." Quigg and Kivlin had, by this time, become associated with Simmons as kind of apprentices, so it was natural that they were riding his designs -- all balsa, encased in fiberglass and resin. Boards made of wood that was 100% balsa had been made before, but never sealed with a compound that completely kept water out of the balsa. It was Tommy Zahn who started the post-war California surfer "cross-pollination." C.R. Stecyk wrote that "Tom Zahn... arrived in Honolulu in 1947" and "immediately lured Joe Quigg, Dave Rochlen and Matt Kivlin to come down soon after. All were armed with provocative, finned balsa Malibu chip surfboards. These wide tailed boards were immediately suspect. Quigg remembers a recurrent phrase of the day being repeatedly uttered, 'Oh, all that balsa, what a waste.' Rabbit who personally befriended the Malibu set, rode their boards, but at that point, characterized them as 'mushers.' The varnished balsa pintail with pine center stringer sported by Quigg employed a dead flat bottom, 50/50 rails and a turned down hard rail in the tail." "We were amazed to see them on those boards," Rabbit Kekai recalled, "they were just standing at the back end on them because they had those wide tails with just one skeg in the center or concave tails with twin fins. Rochlen and Quigg had twin fins. Kivlin had one of his own single finned boards with a narrower tail." In fact, Phil Edwards was so influenced by a Joe Quigg, balsa hotcurl, "The Grey Ghost", that he used it for 2 years in the early 1950s. Fascinating stuff!

Dale - Fascinating indeed! In a more recent conversation I had with Phil Edwards we were discussing fin theory and a “reverse template” skeg I had on one of his boards. He was pretty low key about the whole thing and didn’t really seem that opinionated about that particular fin template. What he did say that has stuck in my mind is that fin design is so important to overall board performance. He said, “If you don’t believe it, try riding a board with no fin.” George Greenough stated in an interview that modern pros should be spending $$$ of dollars (I don’t remember the exact amount, but it was a lot of money) on fin R&D. I know that you’ve spent some time (and money) on it as well. As always, your posts are right on and historically accurate - thanks.

Dale - Fascinating indeed! In a more recent conversation I had with Phil > Edwards we were discussing fin theory and a “reverse template” > skeg I had on one of his boards. He was pretty low key about the whole > thing and didn’t really seem that opinionated about that particular fin > template. What he did say that has stuck in my mind is that fin design is > so important to overall board performance. He said, “If you don’t > believe it, try riding a board with no fin.” George Greenough stated > in an interview that modern pros should be spending $$$ of dollars (I > don’t remember the exact amount, but it was a lot of money) on fin > R&D. I know that you’ve spent some time (and money) on it as well. As > always, your posts are right on and historically accurate - thanks. John, Thank you, perhaps someday you could ask Phil about those two years on the “Grey Ghost” balsa hotcurl… it would be fascinating to know what his conclusions were and how they influenced his following ideas. Certainly he must have found some qualities in that design that held his attention for so long? Even more intriquing, this weekend I was told that a number of advanced (foam) finless boards (based on traditional “Hotcurl” designs) have been professionally made in SoCal over the past years, for those who have chosen to use them in their day to day surfing, usually at times and places beyond the gaze of curious eyes.