Ultra-maximum of slow and slopey: Upper TX coast Gulf of Mexico.
Ha!
That’s the only time I’ll ever own anything with that.
ahahaha
There’s a sizey Ida groundy and offshore wind out there right now though… gotta go!!!
You could have it worse and be on the Great Lakes where nothing under 8’0" is useful. I sometimes have to remind myself that even though my local waves tend to be small, gutless and inconsistent, there’s other folks who have to settle for even less.
One more observation to throw in to the mix. I was riding an 8’ Dick Van Straalen “all rounder” model made in poly. It has a pointier nose than a std longboard with a pintail, 2+1 fin set up. Single concave in the nose and double out through the tail.
I then had him make me a carbon fibre and EPS version of the same board. The carbon fibre board is much thicker but has a concave deck. The weights of the 2 boards though are almost identical.
The carbon fibre board paddles through the flats so much more easily because its more bouyant and I have longer session because I expend less energy paddling back out. Catches waves every bit as well as the poly board and is quicker to respond and so handles late drops better. Dick did caution me to take one extra stroke while paddling into waves but I have never found I’ve needed to.
Riding the waves its performance slaughters the poly board. To the point where I have not ridden the poly board since I picked up the carbon board back in April.
One thing that tends to be overlooked in thick/thin board discussions is the density of the material used in the blank and what it is glassed in. Usually people cite Surftechs and then mention “too corky” and that’s as far as this line of thought goes.
I’ve found my carbon/EPS board to have amazing floatation but it also has a solid weight as well. Dick explained to me that it would sit up on the water while running across the wave face and so to get the bite out of the rail he’s put a chine rail on it. The rail itself isn’t blocky but it thickens dramatically as it goes into the deck. I feel like I have a SUP under my arm when I’m walking to the water.
Anyway: re thickness - the weight and density of materials used need to be considered before blowing off going thicker as another effective means of skinning the cat.
Of course my take on it has to do with being a 46 yr old, 90 kg surfer not a 20 yr old, sub 70kg aspiring pro. Whole different ballgame then.
I think you're right, and so is mr.J. My fish is made from light longboard foam, and a 6x66 glass job, so while thick and super high volume, the heft of it helps in getting momentum up i think. Im sure if it was lighter foam and glass, at that volume, i'd be floating above the waves for sure. Its 3'' thickness goes all the way to the angular rails, which are unintentionally like a step deck, and its 22 wide. Why?, well, it was my second board, and i only use sandpaper and surform, and no way was i going to attempt to dome down the deck by hand, would have looked awfull. Plus i didn't really know about bands like i do now ( thanks BB ).
Im thinking of shaping another fish, similar shape, but maybe a bit smaller, narrower, thinner, and with lighter foam and glass. I'll be making sure i thin the tail out too.
I'd like to try eps stringered foam, and hand lay up with epoxy resin, but getting blanks is very hard, and im nowhere near handy enough to cut a full block of it down.
i had a fish that thick that was was too thick to catch good waves right in the hook. rolly point break, fine. steep beach/reef, no good. too much foam in the nose won’t let the nose penetrate and get you into steeper waves.
of course, a lot has to do w/ how much you weigh. a 225lb guy on a 2 3/4" thick fish might be okay. a 165lb guy is a different story.
lets see - started in 1975 so that makes 34, then subtract about 3 years where I gave up surfing earlier this century (circa 2003) and devoted myself to skateboarding, so thats 31 years approx 
Aha! Ok I know, it was a matter of interpreting your words wrong. To be honest because I thought you were talking about kicking during the catch I had serious doubts about getting the frog kick to work, however as you can see by my post on the paddling and buoyancy thread I’m always ready to try new things even at my age so was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
its clear now, just a misunderstanding
cheers!
I AM talking about kicking “during the catch”. But, you only kick once and it’s absolutely nothing like the flutter kick you often see being done by shortboarders. I honestly can’t believe you never heard of this if you’ve been surfing since the 70s.
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i had a fish that thick that was was too thick to catch good waves right in the hook. rolly point break, fine. steep beach/reef, no good. too much foam in the nose won't let the nose penetrate and get you into steeper waves.
of course, a lot has to do w/ how much you weigh. a 225lb guy on a 2 3/4" thick fish might be okay. a 165lb guy is a different story.
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Well, I'm 175 pounds. Please elaborate on what you mean by "letting the nose penetrate". This one has a lot of volume in the nose and it always feels like it's pushing water on takeoff, even when I'm so far forward that the only the tip of the nose (like the last inch) is out of the water.
I put my 200 pound friend on the board for a few and he seemed to have the same issues with it, although he did snag a few waves. I watched him take off very late on a pretty hollow head high wave and he was still scratching like a maniac where it should have been a no-paddle or two paddle takeoff.
I think the key is the board’s nose rocker. With the right rocker you will find paddling easier. The board can be thick or thin, but without the right rocker, it will not paddle efficiently. I also think a slightly narrower nose helps.
I am playing with flatter rocker to get more glide on my 8’ boards. Some of my boards only have a couple of inches, on others, I try to flatten out the curve and make it really long and gradual, but add a bit in the tail. I guess it would be similar to an old noserider rocker.
I noticed that Griffin’s rockers are very slight from about a foot back to about a foot from the tail. I think that’s why his boards paddle well.
This is true for situations where you’re trying to get in early or glide in. When you take off at the critical part of a wave the nose is not in the water. The steeper the take-off, the less board in the water.
2&3/4 is not thick,OVER 3 would be thick,how much do you weigh?that is the question.if the board is just floating on top,you are too light for it.Epoxy boards tend to float more on top,so you need to pay more attention to your weight when checking out the thickness.I surfed a Ben Aipa 9.0 the other day,epoxy,3&3/4 thick(now that’s thick),and I weigh 163 to 165 lbs,although I could catch waves easily,it was too buoyant for my weight and I had to keep pumping it to get enough speed out of it.Someone weighing 180 lbs and more(200) would have made the board respond a lot better.Ben is a Big dude,and all his production boards are thick.
like the guy said in an earlier post, on steeper waves you want the board to ride in the wave, not on the wave. if you have too much volume in the nose you get that “pushback” feeling and the nose won’t penetrate and go from riding on the water to riding in the water. it’s not the rocker contour pushing water but the excess volume.
at 175 pounds i’d think you’d want a board that’s 2 3/8 - 2 1/2 (at the most) thick and foiled in the nose.
Here's an update. I got very mad at the above-mentioned board when it failed to get more than 3 waves on an overhead day at the local beachbreak. It was 6'10", 2 3/4, single bump, swallowtail thruster.
I replaced it with a 6'4" McTavish Twin Fish, 21" wide and 2 7/8 thick. The board doesn't feel that thick as it doesn't carry the thickness through to the nose. The nose is also significantly narrower and the tail wider (more of a true fish design that way) than the other board. I'm now 165 pounds and the board floats me to my navel, which surprised the heck out of me. It's traditional construction with PU foam and glass.
Almost immediately I found myself catching a lot more waves. Not as many as on my 9'2", of course, but still much easier than the 6'10". The board likes to glide and is a lot faster out of the pocket than the 6'10" was. I am riding the new board as a twinny but it has a third box for a small trailer fin.
Sooooo, I jumped on my 9'2" at the end of the session and hated it, even though I wasn't getting a ton of waves on the smaller board or a ton of open face turns. I just like the feel of it better. Now I have to learn to surf it.
Surfing is 80% mental pending you are in good condition. Most likely the width of the board was the key. Volume distribution. Stay with it you may just find that wider fishes boards fit you better?
I agree. The conditioning is the wildcard yet. I am in "longboard" shape, which means my paddling condition is up to snuff to handle a longboard in any conditions up to head and a half, for up to three hours or more.
The Fish takes drastically more conditioning to use efficiently. I really felt it in my back and shoulders after the first session. A big part of the reason I surf now is for the exercise, so I am looking forward to getting into "shortboard shape" and eventually going to conventional thruster in the 6'6" range. For me, I'd consider this a great accomplishment.
Check the foil and rail volumes of the two boards (not the 9’2). The overall board volumes may or may not be close.
Thickness can be misleading, as you know. The real question is how far out to the rail and how far fore and aft that volume is carried. It’s been said before, “volume distribution” matters more than what the board measures at the thick point.
Also, rocker can be the limiting factor in paddling into waves for a lot of people, whether they realize it or not.
While we're on the subject.... Let me ask a "best shape board for paddling" question here. But first, a little background. I'm 54 years old, with 15 years' surfing experience. Never a great surfer, but proficient. BUT - life intervened with some "stuff", and I let 23 years go by without getting on a board. SO, I last surfed at age 31, and now at age 54 am trying to get back into it. Exercising, losing weight, etc. I'm 5'7", 175 lbs. (after losing 10!)
I have a 6'8" retro fish hws and a 6'10" retro fish foamie (I copied the foam board but just shortened it up a bit when I built my hws). My boards back in the day were a 5'11" fish I loved to surf in backside pointbreak waves, and a 6'7" gordon and smith swallowtail. I have never been a longboarder, tried it a few times, just didn't catch my fancy.
But now I'm finding I get frustrated with wanting more oomph for my paddling effort. I'm not catching waves like I should, getting caught inside, etc. I built the 6'8" hws 3" thick, and have only had it out once so far, so I can't say good or bad on it. And have only been out a few times on my foamie. So maybe its a bit too soon to say. Yes, I've been working the exercise angle. But I don't live by the beach anymore, so getting out is a once a week proposition at best. I usually surf the Ventura area, Pitas Point is (or rather, was) my favorite break.
So- what kinda board do y'all recommend for me? Should I be going for a bigger board - maybe even try longboarding? Specifics would be great, because my next board will likely be another homebuilt hws (for budget reasons! I saw a 7'6" hybrid epoxy board at the local surfshop I'd love to try, but $600 plus is kinda steep for me in this economy).
BTW, I'm new to Sway's also, so I hope its OK to post this question here. Or should I start a new thread with it? (Actually, I think I will post a more generalized question starting a new thread. I need all the help I can get?)
Hey Huckleberry,
Cool with me if you post your question here. I think the gist is the same as the general topic.
I was kind of in your same shoes when I got back in the water this August after a 5-6 year layoff. I came back out on my longboards because that's what I had. It took me 3-4 months of going out twice a week to get back to the point where I felt like I was really proficient - not getting tired, catching 80-90% of the waves I paddled for, turning, pumping, etc. Now that I am in better shape, my wave count has gone up drastically per session from 10-15 to maybe 25-30 in 2-3 hours. That's on the longboards.
I only recently started paddling out on the shortboards. Wave count is closer to 5-7 waves per session, and I am feeling more tired afterwards. I do not feel proficient on the shorter boards, which is a question of 1) developing better reflexes and 2) developing better conditioning. However, after taking a few waves on the smaller boards, my interest in the longboards has waned. They suddenly feel incredibly cumbersome, stiff (even though I had no trouble turning them) and heavy/thick.
So in response to your question, I have to ask you what you want to get out of the experience. You'll definitely catch more waves and get longer and better rides on a longboard (especially at Pitas). If you will eventually want to get back on your smaller boards, though, I don't know that the longboards are a good idea. I'll be able to tell you when I complete the transition back to the smaller boards. So little of the experience seems translatable that I'm not sure the longboarding helped me, other than starting the process of getting me into shape.
I just want to catch waves and have fun. This is the board that got me back into surfing. Fun to paddle. Fun to catch waves. But once I got going, it just felt cumbersome to me. Right away I missed my shortboard. I'm willing to make adjustments, 'tho. Just trying to figure out what fits right for my cirucumstances now.
Hey, I recognize that spot. I have similar shots of me with old boards there dating back to the early 90s.
What I've been doing is checking Craig's list for used boards and trying different things out. It's like a rental - if you don't like it, put it back on the market for little/no loss. I picked up a very nice 9'2" Becker longboard for $250 a while ago, and I also got my virtually new McTavish Twin there for the same price last week. There are deals to be had, and there's no reason to drop $600 on an off-the-rack board, especially if you aren't sure what you want yet. Trying the different boards has really opened my eyes to the possibilities.