Does A Thicker Board Catch Waves More Easily?

This is not a trick question.  All things being equal, does thicker get into waves earlier or more easily?  I recently picked up a thick (2 3/4) fish-style board that IMO can't pick off waves to save its life.  Obviously there may be other factors at work, but the thickness is what concerns me.  Rather than hooking under the lip and moving forward, it seems to like to be so floaty that the waves just roll underneath.

Ah crap!.

I normally dont have the problem, but when it does happen, i lay where i normally would ( that inch or two back ), then just as the wave gets to me i shimmy forward a touch.

 

Good luck with it, hope you find a way.

 

Is the board waaaaay over foamed for you?, maybe you're just too light for it?

 

What I’m referring to has no relation to the flutter kick you see most shortboarders use. It is the same motion used when you transition from sitting to prone and begin to paddle in flat water. It is done BEFORE you start paddling, not during. Extend both legs, angling away from your waist. Then, bring both up and towards your board forcefully, at the same time. It’s a frog kick. Really basic swimming technique most people learn when they’re tykes. I can’t believe I’m explaining this. How long have you been surfing? Be honest, now.

I have a 3'' thick fish. I catch tonnes of waves, tiny to a bit over head.. One thing you need to do is move your chest forward, to get the thick, wide nose down. Once you get used to it, its easy. Also, the last minute turn n pop seems to work, even though you'd think it wouldnt. In very fast pitching waves ( shallow rivermouth ) i do go over the falls a lot more, but it can be done..

cheers Sammy, although I posted yesterday that I had been paying some attention to a vid of two WCT competitors both of whom kicked their legs and I’ve been trying it and its been working, I assumed it was the flutter kick and thats what I’ve been trying. Even with this addition to my wave catching I’m still needing paddles. So by frog kick the propulsion is from kicking your legs outwards or from bringing the feet closer together or both?

Give Geoff McCoy a call and tell him that. He may like to know he’s got it all wrong.

But seriously it is of course the sum of the length, width, thickness and its distribution, foil, rails, wide point, planshape, tail and nose widths, bottom shape etc,etc,etc which needs to be optimised for the particular surfer, their height, weight, body density and foot size riding a particular kind of fat rolling or pitching tubing wave which will effect how hard it is to catch that pesky wave. It’s all really quite simple.

the one thing that has become apparent to me after reading the paddling and buoyancy thread and other threads is that people are getting different experiences and I don’t think they are deluding themselves. I think some people will genuinely be able to catch waves really well on a thick fish and others won’t.

My answer is yes thickness helps me. The all else being equal bit is always hard to achieve as we rarely have the resources to alter just one board parameter. However my near as dammit all else being equal comparison is the 6’ McCoy Nugget. I borrowed my mates nugget and got it wired over about 5 sessions.

The nugget has reasonably normal shortboard rocker - the rocker emphasis is a fair bit of nose lift and lowish tail rocker, but still within the parameters of HP shortboard rocker. Some people have posted that this is a bad emphasis for wave catching. Completely standard thruster fins although the outline shape is a bit unusual.

Notably it is incredibly thick - about 3" and it holds its thickness right into the tail.

This board is an incredibly good wave catching package for me! The owner also thinks so and we have about 20kg difference in body weight. The owner also likes his thick traditional fish and thinks it catches waves well.

The nugget is exceptionally good at the paddle only catch - which is what I would expect as it paddles on flat water really well. I can also effectively pop the tail on it with my modified pop - leap up and ram the tail quite hard into the wave. If I then add some paddles after the pop it catches waves really well that way too.

This is just me but I’ve never been able to get the all pop no paddle takeoff to work - not on any size board I’ve owned over the decades. Certainly popping the tail is very effective for me but I always have to accompany it with a few paddles. I just think we are all a bit biomechanically different and there is a lot of subtle stuff going on in wave catching which goes beyond raw grunt from strong muscles so what is effective for one person won’t be effective for another.

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One thing you need to do is move your chest forward, to get the thick, wide nose down.

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Thought the same thing, and tried that.  It seemed to make matters worse.  I found it planes better if I move back an inch or two.

ha! Cuttlefish, while I was composing my rather lengthy post, you posted your rather more to the point one and we were thinking exactly the same thing!

One critical part of that technique that no one has mentioned is the frog kick. After tipping the board to almost vertical while shoving the tail down, when you lean forward you should be simultaneously kicking HARD with both feet. That single frog kick exerts more force than a double -arm stroke. This method works fine for me on just about every board I use (5’10 to 9’+). The exception being the time I borrowed a friend’s 11 footer. I don’t weigh enough to sink the tail on it!

 

I often catch waves with just one stroke, and sometimes none at all. Of course, wave steepness or strong offshore winds will modify the effectiveness. YMMV

 

Yes.

yes and no. different styles of catching waves.

i've found that thicker boards are easier to 'paddle' into waves... 10 or so strokes.

thinner boards are easier to get into waves with minimal to no paddling...

sink the tail, cork back up, couple strokes and take off.

Thicker than what? Compared to what? Have you ridden a similar board with roughly the same dimensions, save for the thickness?

What type of board do you usually ride, and what is your normal approach to catching waves?

Thicker boards can be used to good advantage in wave catching if you know how to utilize that thickness.  Different shapes and sizes require different paddling techniques.

The board needs to be in the water, not on top of the water to pick up the energy of the wave.

Hello,

 

The dimensions you mention (2 and 3/4 inches) are not thick at all.  Since you are riding on the back third of your board, go with a thin tapering tail, as you like it.  Go with a fat chest in the middle third of your board, (3 3/8 sound right for a fish).  You will catch more waves, without a doubt.

 

Exactly right.   Done in one fluid, coordinated motion, produces a no stroke, or one stroke takeoff.    Obviously must be done as the wave becomes more critical, prior to actual break.   Timeing is crucial.   It can be almost effortless, when timed correctly.    Sammy explains it well.

Its more about rocker than thickness as far as catching waves

if you think about the actual motion of a wave it's circular

up, out , and over

you don't want some think that acts like a cork and doesn't maintain forward motion

so matching thickness with an appropriate rocker that releases forward efficiently versus fighting against the forward thrust of your paddling and bobbing on the surface like a cork.

I used to think going thicker was the solution

but alot of experienced shapers showed me that just a little more width and a better nose rocker improve paddling way more than just adding thickness.

There's two overall thickness approaches:

keeping the extreme thickness in the center and doming the deck (old school shapers) 

or pushing the width out to the rail as much as possible before turning the rail (new school shapers)

the key is getting the right displacement volume in foam for your weight

 

Yep.  With the above technique, timing and volume aplenty at 6’2" x 22.5" x 3"  I (6’1" x 180 lbs) haven’t been paddling much at all for a couple of years … and these waves are SLOW and slopey

I can also attest that (counterintuitive) moving back a couple of inches rather than moving foward will probably give beerfan more waves caught and less pearled…

I’ve been swimming 2000-2500 yds a day for a while now so (-40 lbs later) I think I’m ready to commit to something smaller and use the paddle speed I’ve got on tap now.

Hey, I live on the East Coast. You want to talk “slow and slopey”?

I can still pull off the occasional “no-paddle” take-off on a 6’3". Given that I time it right. I have gotten really lazy when it comes to catching waves as I age. It’s all about ecomony of motion and conserving energy when you reach 60.

I like the thicker boards. Hoever I have noticed that boards with alot of nose width and to much belly are real slugs in the water. A buddy of mine had a really wide fish soemthign like 6’x 17" x 22" x 17" x 2 7/8" with rocker that really rolled from nose to center. I couldnt stand this board and it was verry difficult to get into waves. When i did catch a wave i had to really lay on the nose, paddle hard and then scoot back. it just felt like it was plowing watter.

I made a fishy type board for a lighter weight buddy that was super thick 3" + with flatter rocker though the middle. he gets into waves all over the place and it just hauls ass.