Has anyone here made a dog of a board that although looked good, doesn’t paddle, turn or trim? Im a bit frustrated Im about 235 lbs (108kg) and 6’0 tall, reasonably fit but could be fitter but I have plenty of upper body strength. I used to surf longboards but have been surfing a 7’6 single fin about 3” thick and 22 wide with a 15.5 tail and a 14.5 nose (beak style-old school) which was custom shaped for me– paddles into waves with almost little effort. - I then made a 7’3 x 21 x 14.5 (t) x 13.5 (n) x 2.75 thick thruster. It has 5.5 nose and 2/5 tail rocker. Yet its a real struggle to get into waves. And I mean a real struggle. The only things I can come up with are that I made it too thin and that I made the edge/rail tuck too sharp perhaps having an effect on planning and paddling speed. Any ideas? Suggestions? Should be experimenting more with longer/wider boards? Its not fun when everyone else is catching waves and you are sitting out there wishing you were somewhere else.
put two side bites on instead of the regular rail fins, or just delete them altogether, and see how much difference it makes. You might end up wanting to turn it into a single plus bites.
The thickness at nose and tail aren’t given for either board nor rocker on the first one.
Sometimes raw dimensions don’t give a complete story…
3" of length, 1/4" overall thickness and an inch or so throughout in width doesn’t seem like much. Coupled with more pinched rails and or thinner tail/nose and you could have a basic volume deficiency.
The way the volume is balanced can play a big role in how a board catches waves. If your tail is thin compared to the rest of the board for instance, it might want to sink in the face rather than get up and go.
this is the 7’3 i made. I tucked the rails in almost all the way to the nose so my guess that doesnt help with paddling either. Toe in is about 1/8" or so.
Fins are probox. I think i just took too much foam out of it. Perhaps should of made it 22" not 21". Im at a loss.
the single fin is about 1-1/4 inch at nose and over 1-1/2" at tail and yes. the thickness is carried quite evenly through the foil.
the thickness at nose for my back yard job is around 1" for nose and maybe 1-1/4" (at the most) for the tail. also, in the tail, i accidentally domed it a bit so it lost some foam on the sides. I think it may be a case of learning to flow my thickness around and not make it so abrupt.
Im working on an 8’0 egg which i have tried to make flow a bit better then the last. its also much wider obviously so i hope this makes a difference. i’ll take some measurements and get back here.
A flatter tail rocker seems to work better on good days in my experience, rail shape has a major part in volume too I find. Going by the side shot, your nose rocker seems very short, maybe it’s pushing water?
Without seeing the board, it’s hard to say it’s a dog.
I once heard Wayne Lynch say that he shaped a board for himself thinking it would go great, rode it once and hated it… said he thought it was the biggest dog of a board he had ever shaped. He gave it away to a friend but a week later the guy came back saying it was the best board he’d ever ridden.
Each to their own - maybe let a few other guys ride it… it might suit someone perfectly.
when you say short nose rocker, do you mean too much nose rocker or that it starts too way forward not gradually? it does feel like it pushes water - or at least thats my impression.
Maybe i need a little more tail rocker and less nose rocker?
Well, back to the drawing board.
Its all an experimentation really, trying to find what suits me best and what i enjoy riding.
This has happened to me. And I’m no expert but I think:
it is a lot diff than your other board, but maybe you can get it figured out–I bet you’re trying to catch waves where they aren’t wanting to be caught by that board–
Get your fitness up, rest when you should rest, get where the waves are gonna catch you. You aren’t catching them, theyre catching you. Youre paddling to stay in position ahead of the crest, it’s just at the last second when your board starts to think about planing, you can help it Maybe at that last second you start kicking your feet and reducing the drag back there.
But rocker can keep you further from planing and sliding, and then youre behind the crest.
I have had this experience youre having with a custom fish, I thought it had too much rocker, badly positioned. Two years on, I’m still pretty sure I was right. 3.5 inches of nose and 3 tail with a centered apex and even curve over length on a 6’3" 22" fish = lots of pushing water at the nose and hard to get to plane, on these mushy waves. Look at some pro-designed thrusters to see where they put most of their rocker(s) It’s not an even curve.
The rocker sounds like the culprit. The bad boards I’ve surfed have all had bad rocker and like John said, the numbers really don’t give the whole story. Some rockers are just a nose flip, others are a curvature affecting the whole profile of the board. In my opinion, less is more, but you have to compensate in your surfing style when the waves get bigger or hollower and use the rail as a fin/parachute. In fact, I’ve cut the nose off boards (longer boards) with too much rocker and they paddled better.
Also, maybe you bit off more than you could chew in terms of downsizing? Getting into waves on a shortboard is really different from a longboard. On a long board, you can really get moving before the wave takes you. A short board catches the wave almost as part of the wave, with the tail taking some lift–and then you get up quick and drop!
Well, you cut down your potential planing area (outline) by an inch in the nose and tail…that has more to do with catching the wave then how thick the nose and tail are. But rocker is the critical culprit on this one. Get a straight edge, find the center point on the bottom of the board. Measure back 24" and 30" back from the nose. That measurement should be 1/2"+/- and 1/8". That is good early entry paddling rocker. Is there concave(s) in it? Are the rails paper thin? There are a lot of variables. If the rocker is right, hard edges on the rail should not contribute to your problem.
In VERY general terms:
Flat is fast but less maneuverable.
Hard rejects water, soft hugs water
Thick is corky, thin has lift (if properly designed)
Abrupt changes (kinks) in bottom rocker disrupts water flow.
Wide planes quickly and is drivey, narrow is sinky but changes quickly rail to rail.
Probably more of us have made a dog at some time in our lives than we would like to admit…you learn thru your failures not your successes.
I would bet you’re having several things bite you at once–less volume and less plane, especially in the tail, more rocker in the nose, and fin drag you never had before riding a single. Put together, you have a board you have to swim and drop out of the face onto a wave, where before you could just start sliding onto slopey waves. So you probably/maybe have a different wave-catching methodology to learn.
Anyway. Are you trying to slide onto slopey waves on that board? Probably gonna be difficult but try changing those rail fins out for some FCS sidebites.
I think you could still salvage the board by putting a single box in it and riding as a 2+1 if that’s most of it, you are just hating the fin drag from toed-in rail fins.
Put it this way, there’s a couple things you can actually do for yourself with this board–get better wave positioning for steepness of drop, go all-out for the waves you do try for, and/or eliminate fin drag.
We forgot to ask about your waves and how deep the board was sunk when you sit it.
Thanks for the valuable input on this. i have tried to catch even late breaking waves but get hung up cause i cant paddle into them early enough to make the drops. This is true for hollow powerful waves and more smaller, sloppier ones. just feels im paddling in one spot. Im getting fitter and been swimming laps in the pool. soon as is step onto the old single fin, its a totally new world where every wave is fair game. after all, if ya cant catch waves, you’re not having fun!
We’ll see how the 8’0 goes.
thanks again
ado
ps- when im sitting on the board i made, water is above my waist - about 1/4 way up my guts.
is it floatation or planing area or rocker - as you guys suggests, its all of the above!
man, its addictive this board making thing - into the breach i go once more.
Hello there AJ72. I’ve attached a picture with what I was raving on about. To me the nose rocker seems to end just in front of the blue line and the red line to me seems to be the middle of the board. Hope this helps.
Give a bottom shot, showing fin toe, Ado. I’m still saying you should try some sidebites. I have a board that’s all wrong for me, too, I know it is, all the same ways youre thinking, but with some sidebites in, it’s almost a goer…you actually have waves that get hollow, so you def should try it. I wouldn’t give that board to the wind without doing that expero first.
absolutely will try chaning the side fins to side bites, or even making it a single fin. Might change out the centre probox for a fin box - my next project maybe?
